Evidence of meeting #12 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendments.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
For one thing, on the next one we do have an amendment as well.
Yes, Mr. Trost.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Bradley Trost Conservative Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK
Okay. Rather than making an amendment to delete, one way of amending is voting against something. So this is an amendment by deletion.
There is a need to delete clause 121 that coordinated with Bill C-60, Economic Action Plan 2013 Act, No. 1, which received royal assent in the first session of the 41st Parliament.
The coordinating amendment is addressed under government amendment 9 to paragraph 115(e), page 258. I totally understand that.
My understanding is—actually, forget my understanding. Let's ask our witnesses to explain what I'm talking about.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Okay. Ms. Baxter, do you have further comment on clause 121 and the reason for possibly deleting this clause?
Yes, Mr. Labonté.
9:35 a.m.
Director General, Energy Safety and Security Branch, Department of Natural Resources
The language in the bill was covered via the amendment that was made to the economic action plan act. Therefore, it has already received royal assent, so it's redundant, if you will, in this bill. The two bills were moving forward at the same time previously.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Those were Mr. Trost's comments, yes.
Any further comment on this? Any further discussion on this?
Normally you don't stop a vote part way through, but I thought maybe in this case I would do that.
Let's go to the vote again on clause 121. Those in favour of clause 121? Those opposed to clause 121?
9:35 a.m.
NDP
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
No, we're just voting on the clause. We're handling it just by voting on the clause. You could do it that way too; there are to two ways of doing it. This is the way the government side has....
We can't do it by amendment, the expert says, and that's true.
(Clause 121 negatived)
(On clause 122—Order in council)
There is an amendment being brought forth by the Bloc Québécois.
Monsieur Fortin is here today. Our committee passed a motion that allows an independent member who has a proposed amendment to the legislation to come to the committee and speak to that amendment, whether the amendment is in order or not.
Monsieur Fortin, go ahead and make your comments on your proposed motion, which is amendment BQ-1, an amendment proposed to clause 122.
Go ahead, please.
9:40 a.m.
Bloc
Jean-François Fortin Bloc Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Good morning everyone. Thank you to the witnesses for being with us today.
My amendment is fairly simple. Although it's not very complex, its impact would be very significant.
One thing is obvious: the Gulf of St. Lawrence is a special body of water with an important and unique ecosystem. So we're talking about a fragile environment, a unique environment. Decisions regarding oil and gas development in the gulf will have an impact on all adjacent land. Today, beyond the land boundaries, oil and gas activities are having an impact on the gulf. Agreements with certain provinces are in place, but other provinces, like Quebec, have no agreement. The purpose of the amendment is to make it clear that an ecosystem-based approach must be adopted in the management of oil and gas development.
The Quebec government is currently in talks with the federal government to reach an agreement that could lead to legislation. As long as no such agreement exists, a sort of status quo must prevail. The goal of my amendment is to make sure that this bill comes into force on the same day that the agreement between the federal government and the Quebec government on the shared management of petroleum resources in the gulf comes into force.
It is important to respect the talks under way with the Quebec government and to ensure that the outcome achieved allows Quebec to voice its environmental and energy concerns, in order to adopt a fair approach to managing the gulf's ecosystem.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Fortin.
I am, on the advice of the legislative clerk, ruling this proposed amendment out of order. Clause 122 provides for the coming into force of certain sections by order of the Governor in Council. The amendment seeks to make the coming into force of the bill conditional to the coming into force of the accord between the Government of Canada and the Government of Quebec for the shared management of petroleum resources in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.
As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition states, on page 769:
An amendment intended to alter the coming into force clause of a bill, making it conditional, is out of order since it exceeds the scope of the bill and attempts to introduce a new question into it.
Following the opinion of the clerk, which I fully support, I am ruling this amendment out of order.
Thank you very much, by the way, Monsieur Fortin, for coming today and taking part in this relatively new procedure. This is your first time at our committee. I hope to see you in the future with amendments to other legislation that we deal with in this committee.
Thank you very much.
9:40 a.m.
Bloc
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
There is no discussion allowed on that proposed amendment to clause 122; it is ruled out of order.
Yes, Mr. Julian?
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Mr. Chair, I think it would still be worthwhile to discuss it. It would be important to provide a follow-up for all the independent members. The problem they have now is that once they bring forward an amendment, they have no real way of knowing whether it will be included in the bill.
For that reason, it may be helpful if you could make a recommendation that independent members be allowed to work with the legislative clerk as part of a process to fine-tune the amendments they wish to propose. That would ensure that the process took their objectives into account and that their amendments were in order.
Since we're talking about a new process, I think next time it would be helpful for those members to be able to work with the legislative clerk to make any necessary changes to their amendments to ensure they are in order.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Julian.
I take your point.
First of all, of course, all independents have full access to legislative clerks, to have them comment on whether a proposed amendment is likely to be in order. But in a case in which it will be ruled out of order by the chair, I think it would save the independent's time, if the chair delivered that message to them in advance. They could still choose to come to speak to the amendment—which is unusual, because usually, if a proposed amendment is ruled out of order, you're not allowed to speak to it. That would still be a choice that the independent making the proposed amendment could make.
But it's a good point. I certainly will consider it in the future. It may be worthwhile to deliver that proposal to other chairs as well, so that we can save the time of an independent who might choose not to come to speak to a proposed motion, if it will be ruled out of order.
Monsieur Fortin, I apologize for not catching that in advance and delivering the message to you.
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Jean-François Fortin Bloc Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
No problem, Mr. Chair.
But even though you know that your amendment will be defeated, it is still important to come and propose it. That is all the more important now, given that the government has a majority. As chair, you, yourself, have witnessed the fact that most opposition amendments are defeated by members of the government party. Even though I knew my amendment had little chance of getting through, it was important for me to come and propose it. You would see that it was political in nature.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Absolutely; thank you for that.
Now we go to the vote on clause 122 unamended.
Oh, there is a government amendment, government amendment 11. Thank you.
Go ahead, Mr. Trost.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Bradley Trost Conservative Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The idea behind government amendment 11 is to seek to change the coming into force provisions to allow clause 45—part III.1 of the Canada-Newfoundland act—and clause 84, which is part III.1 of the Canada-Nova Scotia act, to come into force at a time fixed by the Governor in Council.
The reasoning behind this, apparently, is that this change is necessary to ensure that the officers who enforce occupational health and safety are vested with all of their new authorities when the other provisions of the act come into force. This will ensure a seamless operation of the safety regime.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Trost.
Is there any further discussion of government amendment 11?
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 122 as amended agreed to)
Now we go back to clauses that we have stood, and the first one would be—
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
We have to go back to the title last, of course, but now we're going to government amendment 4 to clause 84. We were waiting for some information. You have received that letter, Mr. Julian?
9:50 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Mr. Gravelle has already read it. I don't think Mr. Regan has read it yet.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
I'll wait until anyone who would like to read that can read it. Then we can come back to the discussion on government amendment 4 to clause 84.
You have seen the copy of the letter sent electronically. Mr. Julian, would you like to speak again to government amendment 4 to clause 84?
