Evidence of meeting #6 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chairman.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Director General, Industry and Economic Analysis Branch, Department of Natural Resources
Yes, of course. Thank you very much.
China, like all countries, is carrying out mining exploration. It's possible that new rare earth deposits will also be discovered there. I think China is as concerned as any other country about finding new sources of rare earths, both light rare earths and heavy rare earths. I think it's a concern for all countries because we expect demand to rise. Demand is growing very quickly and, in a few years, even if China continues at current levels of production, it would not be able to supply the rest of the world with rare earths.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I might ask Mr. Habib this. From the scientific point of view, how much does this concern you? Obviously, these rare earths have been found to be critical in a variety of products that are important to us, whether it be smart phones or many other products. What is the likelihood of science finding other ways to achieve the same goals without using these rare earths, if in fact they're going to be depleted? Secondly, what are the possibilities for recycling them?
4 p.m.
Director General, CanmetMining, Department of Natural Resources
Mr. Chairman, we don't really have any research in this area looking at substitution for rare earths. However, we are working on accelerating the development of this industry quite quickly by working in collaboration with many industry partners.
But I don't really have any information related to substitution of rare earths in that area of science.
4:05 p.m.
Director General, CanmetMining, Department of Natural Resources
Recycling is certainly an option. However, we have to remember that you have to have enough tonnage to be able to extract valuables in order to make the recycling process economically viable. Canada has deposits that are very rich in heavy rare earths, and we feel that the science should be more focused on the processing of the heavy earths than going to recycling, for which we don't really have enough capacity.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
If we have deposits that are very rich in heavy rare earths, would I be wrong to think that with the nature of rare earths—being widely distributed and not usually in very high concentrations—mining would require removal of a lot of aggregate?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, CanmetMining, Department of Natural Resources
This is very true, Mr. Chairman, and it is the challenge we have in this area of science. The processing of rare earths elements throughout the whole mining life cycle requires dozens and sometimes hundreds of steps to separate the rare earths elements from each other, and during each step there is a lot of consumption and usage of chemicals. That makes the process of producing rare earth elements quite a heavy one.
So it is a challenge, and throughout the science, under our green mining initiative, through which we are focusing on improving the environmental processes of our mining process and the processing, we are aiming at developing technologies that will reduce the number of steps during processing and ensure that the process is clean to the environment and economically viable.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Are rare earths, and especially heavy rare earths, any more likely to be found at any particular depths? I'm wondering about the kind of mining that would most likely be done.
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Industry and Economic Analysis Branch, Department of Natural Resources
Mr. Chairman, I don't have the answer to this question. It's a good question.
4:05 p.m.
Director General, CanmetMining, Department of Natural Resources
Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry, I don't really have the answer for this, but we can certainly find out.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
I wonder whether you're aware of the kind of mining, for instance in China, whether it's strip mining or deeper mining that is done to extract it, generally speaking.
4:05 p.m.
Director General, CanmetMining, Department of Natural Resources
Mr. Chairman, the types of minerals that China is using are gravel or clay types of material, which is ionic and which represents much less challenge than the hardrock material we have in Canada. The processing of this material in China is much simpler than the processing of what we have in Canada, knowing that we have to go through all the process from extraction to separation, leaching, and hydrometallurgy. In China, the process is much simpler than what we have in Canada.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
If it's in mud or clay.... I guess you can't tell me whether I'd be right to guess that it's much more likely to involve surface mining.
4:05 p.m.
Director General, CanmetMining, Department of Natural Resources
It's an ion-absorbed clay material, which means that it's on the surface; it's not even absorbed, but is on the surface. The leaching of ions from the surface is much quicker and simpler than for hardrock material; there it is embedded into the rock material.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Regan.
Before we start the five-minute round, we may as well deal with our Saskatchewan Roughriders fans and just congratulate their team on victory at the Grey Cup on the weekend.
4:05 p.m.
Voices
Hear, hear!
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
This committee, after all, at least in my judgment as chair, had unanimously passed a motion to support the Saskatchewan Roughriders in the Grey Cup.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
It seems that everybody is a Saskatchewan fan.
Anyway, I couldn't help but do that.
We will now start the five-minute round with the parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources, Ms. Block, followed by Mr. Trost and then Mr. Julian.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
It is duly noted that it was Ontario that put forward that motion, so thank you very much.
I want to join my colleagues in thanking you for being here today and welcoming you. I think this is a very interesting study that we are embarking on, and I am truly sorry that Madam Moore cannot be here. I know that this is something she initiated, so I would ask that my colleagues across the way please pass on our wishes to her that she get well quickly. We hope to see her back here very soon.
I want to ask some questions in regard to some of the slides and perhaps some of the comments you have made, comments that—and I mean no pun by this—may have been mined out of some of the questions that have already been asked.
You have on slide 10 the advanced Canadian REE projects and you have the target years. I was given an article by one of my colleagues speaking to the Matamec exploration. This article states that they are slated to start construction in 2015. In your target projects, you have it at 2018 to 2019.
I guess what I want to understand is whether you could outline for me the timeline for the development of one of these projects or mines. I know it takes a long time from the exploration stage to actually producing something, but could you share with us that timeline?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Industry and Economic Analysis Branch, Department of Natural Resources
Mr. Chairman, the general timeframe—and it's a very general timeframe—to get to a producing mine starting from the exploration stage would be between seven to ten years. Those projects listed on the diagram were started a few years ago, and they have achieved certain steps in the mine development process. For example, they have pre-feasibility studies and some form of characterization of their deposit. This is why we can report on them about tonnage and an approximate year of production.
The years that are outlined in this diagram come from company websites, so I'm not sure.... Sometimes there are various sources of information. If you want, I can validate this information or make sure you have the right information, but as far as I know, what is in this table is the years of production as they are predicted by the exploration companies.
Exploration companies will have to go through various stages. They normally start with identifying a deposit and doing some study to validate whether the metal of interest is found in sufficient quantities in the deposit they have identified. They will go through successive rounds of characterization to increase their knowledge.
When they are confident that a deposit is of sufficient magnitude, they will embark on pre-feasibility studies, and at that stage companies are starting to assess the economic potential of a deposit. On that front, they will also normally do a few studies to further confirm the economic viability of a mine.
Companies also need to go through the environmental assessment process, which is a very stringent and thorough process, to make sure that mine development will not have deleterious effects on the environment.
Further, companies will do a formal feasibility study. Sometimes we refer to these as “bankable” feasibility studies. This is the level of information that allows a company, for example, to go to a bank and get a loan for construction. This is normally in the very last stage, in which there is a lot of information confirming the viability of a producing mine.
