Official Languages Committee on Oct. 19th, 2006

[Nicole Robert]

Since our main role under the legislation was to designate organizations that would offer service in French, we therefore evaluated the CASC of Eastern Ontario in Cornwall, which serves Casselman, Hawkesbury, Alexandria and Winchester, and we worked with these bodies. Any organization that wants to obtain a designation sends us a plan. A network counsellor works closely with the people in the organization. We always suggest they establish a committee on French services to facilitate things. We work to ensure that they get the designation. We tell the organizations what the main principles required are: access, reception services, clerks at the information centre, the number of individuals required to provide service in French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you.

It is Mr. Malo's turn.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning and welcome to the committee meeting.

You touched on the issue I was going to raise a little earlier, but you did not go into depth on it. My question is to Ms. Robert.

Does the fact that Eastern Ontario is located close to the United States and Quebec means that you have different challenges or that there is an impact on your service delivery?

[Nicole Robert]

I will try to answer that question. I'm a health care professional. That is the other hat I wear. In fact, I run a mental health clinic.

In my opinion, the fact that we are located close to Quebec has been an advantage in the past, because health care professionals in Ontario were better paid than those in the Outaouais, for example.

So when the Hôpital Montfort and community organizations were looking for French-speaking health care professionals to staff certain positions, as did my organization, which also serves the francophone population, it was easier to recruit these professionals. The situation has now stabilized in the Outaouais. Fewer health care professionals are leaving Quebec to go to Ontario, but Quebec is experiencing a shortage of these individuals as well. So it has become more difficult.

The fact that Eastern Ontario is located close to the United States has not been a factor. The issue is more national in scope. The pay and benefits and working conditions of health care professionals have not always been good. That caused an exodus of these people to the United States. That did not happen just in Ontario. Human resources staff in institutions such as hospitals work very hard to improve the benefits and working conditions of health care professionals to prevent this exodus to the United States.

In addition, our universities and colleges, throughout the country, not just in Ontario, wake up to the fact that decisions made 5 or 10 years ago about recruitment or about the number of available positions in universities and colleges for future health care professionals were really out-of-date. We have now corrected this situation. So we should be seeing more health care professionals, and the fact that we have better working conditions for them now will help correct the situation further. However, it was not unique to Eastern Ontario.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

At the beginning of your remarks, Ms. Bouchard, you described the francophone minority community as older, with lower-than-average education and located in regions where the economic situation is poor.

Have you been able to do any comparative studies with majority community populations meeting the same criteria to determine whether language was actually a factor?

[Louise Bouchard]

I made some comparisons with the anglophone minority community in Quebec to try to determine whether the fact their people are part of a minority community can have an impact on their health care.

If we exclude the Montreal region, it appears that the same situation exists, namely that there is some link to resources.

Does the anglophone minority community have the same characteristics as the francophone minority community regarding age, aging, and so on? I will have to do more research on this. I cannot guarantee that my information is 100 per cent accurate, but it does appear that the fact that people are part of a minority community is a genuine factor for both official language communities.

That is what I can tell you. I need to do more research to further interpret these data.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Malo and Ms. Bouchard.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

I had a question for you, Mr. Laplante, but unfortunately my time has run out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Perhaps you could ask it on the next round.

Mr. Godin.

[An hon. member]

That does not cost much.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You will never forget that one. I would like to make a comment before asking Mr. Laflamme a question.

There is reason for concern when a government undertakes a reform. When the government decided to review the health care system in New Brunswick, to make some changes and rationalize it, the francophones really suffered. In the Acadian Peninsula, two hospitals were closed down and replaced by clinics. This had a terrible impact. The population was divided. Communities were fighting each other, and the links have never been restored. The government must work in consultation with the public, and not simply dictate its decisions as if they were the only acceptable ones. That is not the right way to operate. I think we experienced this first hand in New Brunswick.

Earlier you were talking about something that had been done, Mr. Laflamme, that was not expensive—only $200,000. Could you tell us how you can pay nurses, doctors and cover other expenses with $200,000, including costs related to the building. Something must not have been included in the calculations, because the building alone must cost more than that. Perhaps it is the fact that for francophones, the government generally spends less.

[Marc Laflamme]

Thank you for your question.

It is true that infrastructure costs are high. Fortunately, I work in a hospital, the Cardiology Institute, which has been around for 30 years. So it is true that we did not really include the infrastructure costs in our calculations.

However, I did manage to establish an office in the hospital, and that was not very expensive. Setting up the office and the computer cost about $1,500. The Alexandria Health Care Office also provided the premises. They relocated the entire health care office in Alexandria in order to make room for the FrancoForme Program.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

In an existing building?

[Marc Laflamme]

Yes.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

So you did not have to build new buildings?

[Marc Laflamme]

In this program, all the work is done by telephone, with the exception of the initial evaluation. During it, the waist measurement is taken, the blood pressure and the weight of the client. So all we need is a small private room. We also need a very simple work space and a computer with Internet access and a telephone. So this program could easily be reproduced anywhere in Canada.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Earlier you were talking about discussions you would have with Quebec. This question is to any of our witnesses. Do you also speak with people in charge of the health care network in New Brunswick?

[Nicole Robert]

There is a network.

As I mentioned earlier, the Société Santé en français has networks throughout each of the provinces. In Ontario, there are four, and in New Brunswick there is one.

The networks in New Brunswick have also introduced projects such as the one Mr. Laflamme was speaking about in their municipalities and regions, in order to introduce certain programs. Since I am not on the health care services of Société Santé en français, I do not know that much about it, but those individuals could tell you about their projects.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I know there are networks in place, but I was wondering whether you and your New Brunswick counterparts share information.

[Nicole Robert]

Yes. The networks communicate through conference calls. In addition, all the networks take part in the annual general meeting of the Société Santé en français.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

As you know, the New Democratic Party is completely opposed to the privatization of health care services. Do you think privatization could result in problems?

Many doctors think that some services should be privatized. Personally, I have trouble believing people who would want to make money from other people's illness. I completely disagree with this idea. What is your view about opening up private clinics, and so on in Ontario?

[Nicole Robert]

The network respects the national principles of health care, which do not include privatization. We do have a government that agrees with a certain type of privatization. For example, there are negotiations regarding the management of our infrastructure. That was suggested in the case of the Royal Ottawa Hospital, the mental health facility in Ottawa. There is an agreement, a partnership with the company that could build the building and probably manage the infrastructure. That is a type of privatization, but it is not privatized health care.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

If people want an MRI, they can pay $600 and get it today, but if they do not want to pay, they will have to wait six months.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Your time is up, Mr. Godin.