Official Languages Committee on Nov. 27th, 2007

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

You expressed concern about the fact that language training is no longer provided by the Canada School of Public Service. In the past, the public service had its own school where this type of training was provided. The new government, if we can call it that, decided to change directions. This seems to trouble you. I would like to hear what you have to say about it.

[Graham Fraser]

Mr. Chairman, I am more interested in results than in the means to achieve them. I have heard arguments both for and against this decision. It is now up to the department to ensure that people who are in positions where bilingualism is a requirement are indeed bilingual.

Some say that the centre will lose all control if the school is not given that responsibility, while others believe that it is a way to make the department and the employees themselves more accountable. Personally, I feel it is too soon to comment on the effect of this decision.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Should we not consider what effects this might have in rural areas, where there is no institution that can provide language training? This involves the public service, its responsibilities, government money and the likelihood that people living in rural areas will have to travel elsewhere for training. As for the communities, there may be places in Canada where no language training is available. We don't know how widespread the effects of this change will be. It may work in urban centres like Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal and even Moncton or Fredericton, but has anyone given any thought to how this could negatively impact the small regions?

[Graham Fraser]

I have taken note of the honourable member's remarks, and will keep them in mind when the time comes to examine the impact of this decision.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

That is all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We have completed our fourth round. Mr. Chong has indicated that he wishes to ask an additional question. If the committee agrees, we could allow him three minutes.

Mr. Chong, you have three minutes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We remain concerned over symptoms that arise over official languages issues. Perhaps it would be a good idea to get to the bottom of this.

Perhaps it would also be a good idea to consider a third language policy. I spoke about this last year, at a committee meeting during which you were introduced.

If we could examine a policy of trilingualism, in some ways we might address a number of issues that you touched upon in your testimony. It would be a policy where two of the three official languages would be a requirement for graduation from high school, and the third one would be the student's choice. So if you're an aboriginal, it could be a native language. If you were somebody living in Vancouver, it could be Chinese or Japanese. If you were living in Montreal, it could be Spanish.

This policy would obviously be to the benefit of national unity. It would address some of the foundational problems we have with respect to accessing health care for people in both official languages. If you were in the armed forces or the RCMP, it would address a lot of the other problems we might have. It would be good for international commerce. It would be good for cultural diversity

I think it's something you might look at as you go forward in your role in the next six years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Chong, you should allow Mr. Fraser to respond. He has only one minute.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Yes. I would encourage the Commissioner of Official Languages to take a look at this. A lot of what we talk about is symptomatic of deeper problems, and the deeper problems rest with the education system in this country. Potentially a policy that would encourage greater use of both the French and English languages, a policy that would require students to have knowledge of those two official languages and a third one... As Luc Harvey mentioned, two plus one might be the way to deal with the galloping heterogeneity we're seeing in the country's largest cities and at the same time deal with some of these symptomatic problems that you identify in your annual reports.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Fraser, you have time to give a very brief answer. You have 30 seconds.

[Graham Fraser]

Mr. Chairman, I deeply appreciate the member's interest in this issue. As I said earlier, I think it's much easier to learn a third language than it is to learn a second language. The degree to which language duality intersects with cultural diversity is a subject that we've already undertaken. I will certainly take into consideration the member's very interesting point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Mr. Godin wishes to make one last point. I will then conclude with a question to the commissioner.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I must speak out. The Standing Committee on Official Languages practically suffers from a syndrome, or rather a cancer. I must say a few words about this.

Is it a syndrome to have to demand that the government respect both official languages before adopting a third one? Before hastening to adopt a third language, wouldn't we be better advised to resolve the problem at hand, to make sure the law is being complied with, and that the two official languages of our two founding peoples are being respected? And do we want to keep our country unified, from the west coast to the Atlantic coast? Mr. Commissioner, is this a syndrome? As a commissioner, do you yourself suffer from this syndrome?

Adopting a third language does not fall under your responsibility. Pardon me for saying so, but you are the Commissioner of Official Languages; it is your responsibility to make sure that the legislation voted by Parliament pertaining to our country's two official languages, French and English, is respected.

[Graham Fraser]

Mr. Chairman, I am well aware of my mandate, my obligations, my responsibilities and my aspirations.

I had understood the member to be talking about a symptom, and not a syndrome. One symptom that I have observed is that after nearly 40 years, the government is still unable to fulfil its obligations. This is what I had understood—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, if we were to start focusing on a third language, would we run the risk of having English and Chinese prevail in Vancouver?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Order please. We are going to wrap up.

Mr. Godin, you have one minute remaining.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, wouldn't there be a danger of letting the issue of official languages fall by the wayside if we were to consider adopting a third language?

I am open to the idea of a third language, but it is your responsibility, as well as that of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, to make sure that the two official languages of the two founding peoples of Canada are respected within the federal government.

[Graham Fraser]

I agree with the member: my mandate is very clear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Commissioner Graham.

In addition to the clarifications on national stewardship, you have also made linguistic clarifications. Commissioner Graham, I wish to thank you. Your appearance this morning was very well prepared. You tabled documents, your statement, and a news release. On behalf of members of this committee, I wish to thank you. I would also like to acknowledge the synergy that you have developed with the Ombudsman of the Canadian armed forces. He also appeared before this committee and helped us advance in our work, just as you have done this morning.

I will give you the last word. Tomorrow, the same committee will be meeting to discuss future business. We already have a schedule, but if you had to recommend one or two topics to explore, what would they be?

[Graham Fraser]

As I stated at the end of my presentation, the government must absolutely move to action and develop and implement the next phase of the Action Plan for Official Languages, and this committee must oversee its development. What is important is that its approach be broad-based and strategic.

One of the points that I continue to stress is the importance of leadership. Fluency in both official languages is a crucial component of leadership. This type of leadership must also be manifest in the renewal of the public service. A huge percentage of public servants will soon be retiring; a demographic renewal process is underway. In these circumstances, we must not forget the importance of linguistic duality and bilingualism.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Commissioner Graham, I wish to thank you and your team for taking the time to meet with us this morning.

See you again.

The meeting is adjourned.