Official Languages Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2009

[Marie-France Kenny]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

We'll continue with Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Well, I'm not sure this is a good idea. I'm going to go ahead with it anyway. You know me: I'm frank.

Good morning, mesdames, and welcome to the committee.

I'd like to put a few things in perspective. Prime Minister Harper was given the rank of Grand-Croix of the Ordre de la Pléiade by the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, one of the highest distinctions in the francophone world. That's not insignificant. He always speaks French, although he's an anglophone. He makes considerable effort to speak French. You have to give him that. You can look at the bad sides, but you also have to see the good side of things.

I would like to go back to the fact that Minister James Moore told some stories in committee. When he travels, he does the test you are asking for; he always asks to be served in French. He takes a lot of notes if he is denied service. He often tells us that he demands to be served in French.

Have you received the annual official languages report of the Treasury Board Secretariat of Canada?

[Marie-France Kenny]

No, we haven't received it.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I hope you'll have the opportunity to study it because it contains some figures. The report contains this passage:

The proficiency level required has increased considerably over the years. The rate of bilingual positions requiring superior proficiency was 7.2% in 1978, and 32.4% in 2008.

We've nevertheless taken a step forward for bilingualism. I was parliamentary secretary for official languages before Ms. Glover. I'm pleased that she is a francophile from Manitoba. She sees both sides of the story.

Do you think the fate of the communities is determined solely by governments? How much will the changes requested by the FCFA cost?

[Marie-France Kenny]

We're requesting full compliance with the act. I want that to be clear. This has been going on for 40 years. We're accusing no government, but rather all of government. I want that to be clear because no government has completely complied with the act.

Ms. Boucher, you gave me some figures; you mentioned an increase from 7% to 32% 40 years later. Pardon me, but to my mind, an act is an act. If English-language services were withdrawn from anglophones at Toronto Airport, believe me there would be an outcry and indignation. I'm very passionate about this.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I am too.

[Marie-France Kenny]

Aren't there reasons for us francophones to be indignant about the fact that, 40 years later, our rights are not respected to the same degree?

Are we asking that the act be complied with 100%? Yes. We would do so in an ideal world.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Everyone agrees on that.

[Marie-France Kenny]

I would say to you that there will still be complaints, but that should be an exception, not the norm.

Over the past 40 years, we have managed to accept that receiving 10,000 or 15,000 complaints is the norm. Let's just take the case of Air Canada, among others. There are a host of other examples. I can't tell you how many complaints I myself have filed in the past month.

Don't we have reasons to be indignant? That's what we're arguing.

As for the amendments to the act, in my view, if the government has to pay to comply with its own act, it's entirely logical for it to do so. It will be up to the government to bear the costs. This is an act passed by the government; we therefore expect it to comply with its own act, regardless of the party in power.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Everyone agrees.

However, there has nevertheless been an improvement. We used to be below zero.

[Marie-France Kenny]

We were below zero 40 years ago.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We have taken some steps. Perhaps it's not going as fast as we would like. Now that I'm in politics, I know how it works. We want to change the world. Things don't always go at the speed we would like, but, when steps are made, you nevertheless have to say so.

[Marie-France Kenny]

We're saying that steps have been made, and we acknowledge the progress.

However, I would say to you that a lot of the progress that has been made—we said so, and it's in our document—thanks to employees and politicians, some of whom are around this table and who work very hard to ensure linguistic duality. You talked about Minister Moore, who requested services in French at the airport. Ms. Glover does so as well.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Yes.

[Marie-France Kenny]

So, in my opinion, there are examples, but I must tell you that I know from having worked in the federal government myself, in official languages, there is a very great lack of administrative and political will. Employees like me could suggest tonnes of initiatives, and if they didn't come from above, and someone didn't say he or she was going to make sure it was done, it wasn't done.

I did it, in the department where I was, without any budget, apart from a portion of my salary. So we didn't have any money.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Ms. Boucher.

We'll begin our second round with Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you both for being here before us this morning.

I understand your comments, Ms. Kenny, regarding the slowness of improvements. I'll cite you a few examples.

First, in 2006, I introduced a motion in committee concerning the maintenance of the Publications Assistance Program. You know of it. Among other things, you sent us a letter of support for the Association de la presse francophone, for the maintenance and continuation of the program. It is now 2009 and it will soon be 2010, when the program will simply be replaced by the Canada Periodical Fund. That's what we suppose. It should be done before next April 1. It is already December.

Failing a guarantee that the program won't be cancelled—it can change names and be called whatever anyone wants; that's not the objective; the objective is for the funding to continue—I want to inform you that the clerk will be receiving a motion from me today concerning that program. I introduced one in 2006, and I'm forced to do so again today. That's terrible.

I can read you the text of the motion: That the Committee recommend that the government:- maintain the funding provided by the Canada Post Corporation for the Publication Assistance Program for publications serving official language communities living in minority areas;- immediately replace the program ending on March 31, 2010 with the new Canada Periodical Fund on April 1, 2010; and- that these recommendations be reported to the House as soon as possible.

I did it in 2006 in the hope of never needing to do it again. Today I have to redo the same process, and there's still no guarantee that the new program will be in place on April 1.

Second, yesterday I put a question to the Minister of Justice, who appeared before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. I asked him his opinion on the obligation for Supreme Court judges to be bilingual. At no point did he want to say that would be desirable. He only told me about the merit issue. I asked whether it would be possible to include bilingualism in the factors related to merit that made it possible to score additional points. He was unable to answer me in the affirmative.

Third, last Tuesday, the Commissioner of Official Languages presented a report on Vancouver Airport's preparations for the 2010 Olympic Games. The head of the airport told us that he had hired someone. To our great dismay, we learned that that person had been hired four weeks earlier. That's terrible.

I put some questions to the woman who accompanied the head of the airport—she mentioned that she had been one of the persons responsible for official languages over her 32 years at the airport—and it seemed clear that someone somewhere was preventing bilingualism from advancing.

If someone has managed official languages at the airport for 32 years and the organization has just hired a person who will be responsible for that matter in anticipation of the Games—14 weeks before the start of the event—how do you think they can resolve the situation?

Airport officials told us that it was a complex matter, that it was infernal and that franchisees can't be bilingual. They believe that, in 14 weeks, they'll resolve everything, when they were unable to do so in the six, 12, 24 preceding months or, as you mentioned, over the last 40 years.

I know I'm not leaving you a lot of time to answer, but I wanted to mention some situations we face every day. We got a message from Air Canada saying that they wanted to assure us that, on board Air Canada's aircraft—especially the Jazz DASH 8s—we'll no longer be seeing the sign stating “Ne pas fumer les toilettes.” I had to talk about that for a year or a year and a half regularly—

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

And it's not over.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

—for someone to finally resolve that situation. And yet it was simple: they just had to remove the sticker and post another one.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It works; no one smoked them.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

However, it took all that time for someone to finally recognize that it made no sense. We at least got a message from Jazz saying that it was unacceptable and they would make sure it was corrected. That took a year and a half.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. D'Amours, your time has gone up in smoke.

We'll now move on to Ms. Guay.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Everything's recorded.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Good morning, mesdames.

I have been listening to my colleagues' questions for a while now, and I'm a bit discouraged to see that matters haven't advanced further in 40 years. The fact that it took a year and a half to change a sticker on an airplane is virtually unimaginable. I realize that people really do the strict minimum—and I'm being generous when I say that—solely for appearances. It's disturbing. As far as I'm concerned, I've seen a net decline rather than an advance.

Furthermore, do you have the necessary resources? You seem to lack them at the grassroots level. Ms. Kenny, you say you used your salary to move matters forward. That makes no sense. There has to be funding. I'm convinced it wouldn't take you billions of dollars. However, you need financial assistance to be able to work at both the grassroots level and at a higher level.

I entirely agree that our ministers and deputy ministers should be bilingual. I'm a francophone from Quebec. I speak French, and even though I'm perfectly bilingual, I like to be served in my language and to speak my language. That's my priority. I have total respect for those who speak English, but the fact remains that francophones are a minority. Here we're talking about 25%, and I can't believe that things are moving forward so slowly across the country.

I'm really saddened and I hope that more than ever you won't be denied or that a group won't be denied the opportunity to make a presentation to us on the lack of progress on bilingualism or the French language. I'm telling you this: that's unacceptable. We have to be aware of what is going on, so that we can discuss matters in committee and ensure that every person who has something to present to us can do so. We're working hard and you're presenting reports to us. It's important for us always to be informed so that we can act as members of Parliament, inform ministers or deputy ministers and bring pressure to bear. That's our role. I'd like to hear your comments on that subject.