Official Languages Committee on March 8th, 2011

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

All right, Mr. Nixon, let me ask you the question another way, because time is getting short.

Anyone can get any form on the Internet. If a person does not have the Internet at home, I presume that the anglophone employee will be smart enough to know that the word “passport” is the same as the word “passeport” in French, that he will print out the French form and give it to the client.

I want to know if that is the case, yes or no.

[Charles Nixon]

Yes.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

The other topic that I am very interested in is the issue of bilingual positions held by people who are not bilingual.

Just now we were discussing the expiration dates for bilingualism: a position can lose its bilingual status overnight. I want to know how you are managing this situation. In my mind, I am bilingual and I have trouble seeing how I could stop being bilingual tomorrow. That is a personal matter. Scientifically, we will not challenge it, we will not even go there.

If a person holds a management position or some other position in a bilingual service, according to you, depending on the training they have received, they could potentially lose their French at some point. We agree that French is the minority language here, meaning the language we want.

Please explain that to me, because it is beyond me.

[Liseanne Forand]

I will ask Mrs. Rallis to answer your question but first, I should say that an entire system has been set up to make sure that people have the required language skills to hold bilingual positions.

[Gina Rallis]

Thank you very much.

Every five years, people must be tested to make sure that they meet the required level in their second official language. For various reasons, some people could possibly fail their test. In that case, they do not meet the requirements of the linguistic profile.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Did you say that they do not want to pass?

[Gina Rallis]

No, they were unable to pass. They had to take the test at the Public Service Commission and, for some reason or other, they were unable to express themselves clearly enough, say, in an oral test.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

They failed their test.

[Gina Rallis]

Precisely.

In a case like that, they do not meet the requirements of the language profile of their position. So we have to make sure that the department offers training so that they can meet the requirements.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

In a case like that, does the person lose his or her job immediately?

[Gina Rallis]

They do not lose their jobs. They are entitled to language training so that they can pass.

Of course, in our organization, our language of work strategy, as Ms. Forand mentioned just now, involved the raising of a great deal of awareness on the importance of maintaining a knowledge of the second official language once it is acquired.

There are modules on our intranet where, instead of waiting for the end of the five-year period, people can prepare and get practice in their second official language, be it French or English.

[Liseanne Forand]

Let me add that, if the person takes the test, fails and has to go for training, administrative measures of some kind must be taken to ensure that the bilingual employees who report to that person are supervised in the language of their choice.

So the manager must take extra measures like that, once it is known that the person does not meet the requirements of the job. We can use another manager or a higher level manager to supervise the employees in the language of their choice.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

Mr. Nadeau, I have to interrupt you.

Mr. Galipeau, you have five minutes.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the members from all political parties.

I have three points that I want to raise.

First, there was a time when I was not bilingual. I was brought up in Ontario and my ancestors have lived in Ontario for more than 160 years, but I did not speak any English. It was not because my parents did not want me to learn it. On the contrary, they pressured me to learn English, but I was foolish because I had also learned to hold certain prejudices against anglophones. Much more than a communication issue, it was an identity issue and I was not about to learn English.

A time came when I got over my prejudice and I became bilingual. Five years later, I was no less bilingual; five years later, I was more bilingual. Put yourselves in my situation, 64 years old as I am.

When I speak English, you can hardly tell I have the slightest accent, except if I'm tired.

I know Kemptville and I can easily imagine that two francophones speaking to each other in French there would raise eyebrows all around them. That has nothing to do with the department's policy but with people's attitudes. They must be made aware in the same way that I was. This is serious and it is systemic.

I am sure that you all know how to ride a bicycle. Some of you may have not been on a bicycle for two years. But, if I gave you one, you would be able to ride it. Similarly, if you lose your language skills over a period of five years, it is perhaps a case of use it or lose it.

We do not need training, we need the right attitude. You can listen to the radio in the other language during your free time, while you are shaving or driving your car. That helps. You really need the will. Where there's a will, there's a way.

On another subject, when I go to an office and ask to be served in my language, if the employee is not capable of doing so, how does he react? Does he say: “Sorry, I don't speak French” or does he say “Un instant, s'il vous plaît”? What happens in situations like that?

[Liseanne Forand]

Could I ask Mr. Nixon to answer the question, because he might have more experience on the ground than I have.

When our front-line workers begin to be trained for service, we tell them to do their best, to be as courteous as possible, as polite and as helpful as possible, to show people where they should call or to direct them to another office. They must do this in the second language if they can, by using phrases that they have learned, and they must direct people to someone on the premises who could perhaps be able to serve them. They must provide them with all the information they need, as politely as possible, as practically and as efficiently as possible.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Are they also told not to make the client feel guilty?

[Liseanne Forand]

Absolutely.

Is there anything else to add?

[Charles Nixon]

No.

[Liseanne Forand]

We try to impress on our front-line employees that they must take all the measures they can and make every effort they can, as they have learned in their training, to offer the best possible service to the clients. Most of them are very proud to do so.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Let met ask you one last question. I see that, in his report, the Official Languages Commissioner gave you a mark of 54%, although your survey gives you 98% in client satisfaction. Is there something there I do not understand?

[Liseanne Forand]

The mark of 58% was for the active offer. When the commissioner's officers phoned the office in the course of their audit, the first thing that the employee said to them, in 58% of the cases, was “hello, bonjour” or “bonjour, hello”—or something of the sort. The active offer is a specific component of our bilingual service.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Why isn't it 100%?

[Liseanne Forand]

It should be 100%. That is our objective. The last time we audited the active offer performance, we got a mark of 85%. That is not enough. Saying “hello, bonjour” is not too much to ask. Anyone should be able to do it, and that is the result we are trying to achieve by making every effort that we can possibly make. The mark of 98%...

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

Thank you very much...

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.