Official Languages Committee on April 1st, 2010

[George Bakoyannis]

There are two English daily papers in Quebec. One is the Sherbrooke Record, which is a member of our association, so I know it's not going to them. The other one is The Gazette, and I have no way of knowing if the money is going to them or where it's going. I don't have that information.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

We are going to find out.

I still have some time. A little earlier, you referred to the potential unfairness between newspapers in Quebec and newspapers outside Quebec, in financial terms. Is that not just because of the large number of francophone newspapers or media outside Quebec compared to the anglophone newspapers and media in Quebec? Is it not a simple matter of arithmetic?

[George Bakoyannis]

No, sir. Our association, QCNA, has about 35 newspapers. We work very closely with the APF and we are very good friends. The APF, Association de la presse francophone, which is outside of Quebec, has the same membership as us. We're basically exactly the same.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I would now like to turn to Mr. Matthews and Ms. Robinson.

A little earlier you referred to the CRTC. It was about getting money from national public radio networks or national networks. A portion of that money could be given to you and you could potentially benefit from it. Can you explain exactly how you see this?

[Kevin Matthews]

The CRTC has regulatory oversight over how private broadcasters in Canada allocate the Canadian content development benefits they pay. As part of their licensing, the private broadcasters in Canada pay a proportion of their revenue to Canadian content development benefits. There are a number of eligible activities they can take part in--community initiatives like supporting local music with a battle of the bands, or giving them free services.

They also contribute to FACTOR, the fund for Canadian talent on recordings. That's another CCD initiative. They contribute to FACTOR, which in turn helps Canadian artists record CDs. There's a whole list of other things that are eligible for that support. The Community Radio Fund of Canada, now that it exists, has been added to that list. It's been a couple of years now, and the private broadcasters have been encouraged to make voluntary contributions to the fund. But we are telling the CRTC this year that it hasn't really been working. It has been terribly insufficient. It's within the CRTC's purview to make some kind of a mandatory contribution so some portion of the CCD revenue flows into the community radio sector.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Généreux.

We will start our second round with Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for being with us this morning.

Mr. Bakoyannis, your group has 35 members. How many of them are able to achieve a circulation of at least 2,500 copies?

[George Bakoyannis]

I don't believe that more than 25 of them have more than 2,500 subscribers. We have some very small papers in small communities in rural areas of Quebec. These papers are still being supported by this program and they are very grateful for that. I would say that out of our whole membership, almost half of the papers are receiving this periodical fund, while the other half isn't.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Of that 50% that receive the fund, can you tell us how many are able to sell more than 2,500 newspapers?

[George Bakoyannis]

Do you mean of those that are receiving the fund?

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Yes.

[George Bakoyannis]

All of the ones receiving the fund are selling more than 2,500 papers a year. There isn't a problem there. I think our smallest newspaper produces maybe 600 or 700 copies a week. Even if you multiply that by 52, it surpasses 2,500 papers a year.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Of those that do not receive the funding right now, how many produce less than 2,500?

[George Bakoyannis]

The rest of the papers that don't receive the fund have circulations anywhere between 10,000 copies and 30,000 copies, but because their distribution is controlled, we are not selling the papers.

It's difficult to sell a paper when you're giving it out for free somewhere else. You're doing door-to-door distribution. People are picking up your product and reading it. So how can you turn around and sell 2,500 copies?

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Absolutely.

[George Bakoyannis]

In order to do that you'd have to do something very foolish.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I understand your point of view very well, sir.

Let's move on a bit, Mr. Bakoyannis, because time is passing rather quickly.

There is talk about the program guidelines for the Canada Periodical Fund. Do you think it is acceptable for the Minister of Canadian Heritage to have the discretion to reject applications even if they are eligible? Do you think it is extreme for the Minister to be able to reject applications and for that decision to be final? That means that even if the groups are eligible, the Minister can decide not to give any assistance, and his decision is final. Do you think that is acceptable?

[George Bakoyannis]

I find that acceptable under certain circumstances. There are newspapers out there that look like they meet the criteria, but if you look closely you'll find many discrepancies in their numbers, their circulation, and so on. That might make the minister decide not to grant the.... Yes, I think that's perfectly acceptable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

We will continue with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Bakoyannis, I am going to ask you a question, and then I would like Ms. Robinson and Mr. Matthews to answer.

What areas should we, as legislators, work on, to help you achieve your objectives of distributing newspapers, and especially to make sure that your newspapers and radio stations survive?

A little earlier, we heard that radio stations are closing up shop. The same is true for newspapers that may be having hard times. Where should we focus, to give you a hand in this respect?

[George Bakoyannis]

I think two of the most important I talked about today are as follows. One, I think the federal government should support minority newspapers in Quebec the way it supports minority newspapers outside Quebec. That's one way. That's a very concrete way.

Two, I think in Quebec, because of the market and the way the market is, the Canada Periodical Fund would have to be opened up to control the distribution of newspapers for those papers to have access to that fund. We're not talking about millions of dollars. As I said, there are 35 newspapers right now in our association. Half of them are already getting the fund; the other half are not. Under the current conditions, either we have to become very creative to find a way to get those two and a half thousand copies sold every year or the federal government will make a decision and say it will help these papers. They'll put them in and let them have access to this fund.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Matthews, Ms. Robinson, do you have anything to add?

[Kevin Matthews]

The number one thing you could be doing as legislators would be urging the Department of Canadian Heritage to create a program for support of community radio.

The ministère de la Culture, des Communications et de la Condition féminine

has a program that it's quite proud of, and it's had a great impact on community radio in Quebec. I think at the same level it would be appropriate for Canadian Heritage to develop a new program that's specifically targeted to support community-based radio throughout Canada.

Second, I think it would be fair for MPs to support our recommendation to the CRTC that it award some mandatory portion of CCD contributions to the Community Radio Fund of Canada.

I think both these things would include support to official language minority communities by supporting the health of the sector as a whole.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

We will now move on to Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good morning, and welcome, gentlemen.

We recently heard from the people at ARC. They told us about the challenges that electronic media present for community radio. We know the situation for community radio is difficult. How are you dealing with the advent of the new media? Do you feel that you are getting support from the federal and provincial governments? Are you getting assistance? Apart from government funding sources, whether for community radio stations or newspapers, do you have other ways of funding your activities?

Mr. Matthews.