Official Languages Committee on Feb. 16th, 2012

[Jean-Pierre Gauthier]

Yes.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

Because of their cooperation and their suggestions, participation in those consultations was successful…

That is said with no figures to support the statement. I assume the methodology will come with figures that will help us to understand.

…the main purpose of the consultations was to better understand the specific ways in which the operation of the Roadmap had been received on the ground. This was a first attempt at a report card of the rollout and the outcomes of the initiatives, highlighting to the extent possible their strengths, their weaknesses and the progress…

As I read the rest, it seems to me that the document focuses on the strengths. The only things ever talked about are the successes, which is not a problem in itself. But, to me, the problem seems to come if you cannot also find out about the things that worked less well. This is not necessarily in order to throw stones, but to know which adjustments to make. Maybe that problem will be solved when I see the methodology.

You decided to make this committee's work your main source of information. Do you have experts in testing, evaluation, or sociology who can confirm that that is a scientifically valid method of evaluation?

[Jean-Pierre Gauthier]

Several members of my team are accomplished researchers with a lot of experience. But I repeat that the committee is engaged in a number of mechanisms. It's the sum total that we are trying to get out of it. As I said previously, each mechanism has its strengths and its weaknesses. We try to have several sources of information, not just one. I certainly do not want to disregard the fact that a number of other sources of information will help to bring everything together, so that it can be compared to what you hear and to the statements made before the committee.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Don't you think that, if we had been made aware of this sooner, the committee would have been the judge, the umpire of the testimony and the questions we wanted to ask the witnesses? You have now put us in a situation where we are not the judge and the ump, we are the judge and the chump. I get the distinct impression that I have been duped into not being able to play the role around this table that is mine to play.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Aubin.

[Jean-Pierre Gauthier]

Basically, we have to remember that, when we looked at the big picture, we saw that the committee was holding its hearings, that people were getting ready to present reports and, in some cases, to table documents in the name of their communities. We waited to see how that work was going to be organized in order to find out what kind of information source it could be for us. In that spirit, over time, we recognized the number of witnesses, the quality of the testimony and the nature of the debates. We decided that it was a source of information that we could not disregard and we made the decision to use it. That's what I feel it comes down to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Gauthier.

Mr. Williamson, you are last.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Tell me a little about the 74 schools built in New Brunswick that are now open. I may have a couple of questions.

[Yvan Déry]

The concept of the community school is not just about building or adding a community centre or something like that. The idea is that a school employee is mandated to reach out to the community. That person becomes a facilitator, bringing the community into the school so that the entire community can take advantage of the facilities and so that community representatives can play a role in the way the school operates. The school can become the focal point of the community.

In the Acadian peninsula, practically speaking, the francophone community forms the majority. In majority language situations like that, it means that parents, businesspeople and social groups are able to participate in school activities. Where the community is more diffuse, it really makes the school the main vehicle for community life.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

In the case of New Brunswick, does that mean that your efforts go towards English being taught in the north and French in the south? Or are you trying to make sure that French is well represented in the north? New Brunswick is strange, in that a third of the population is francophone. They are not really a minority like others elsewhere in the country.

[Yvan Déry]

People from the francophone school boards would tell you that all the students coming out of their schools are bilingual. In a community school, English is taught as a second language, certainly, but the value is in the community mandate of the school vis-à-vis the linguistic minority. Then, another part of our program lets us work specifically with provincial governments in order to improve and expand second-language teaching.

In southern New Brunswick, to use your example, schools in anglophone boards offer education in French. French is taught with immersion and intensive programs. New Brunswick is the first province to decide, quite recently, to extend intensive learning of the other language to all its anglophone and francophone classes. Quebec is going to do the same thing, because that is the easiest way to double, or to rapidly increase, the number of Canadians who are bilingual.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Williamson. Thank you, Mr. Déry.

Thanks to all the witnesses for their testimony.

Committee members asked to receive some figures. You can send them to the clerk of the committee. Thank you for doing that.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Your turn, Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Would a motion be in order to the effect that the bill for all the witnesses who appeared before us vis-à-vis the road map be sent to the Department of Canadian Heritage?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Right now it would not be.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

You'd have to give me notice for that, and then I would let you know at that point whether it's in order. But it's certainly not in order right now.

We'll suspend for five....

Yes.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Mr. Chair, my apologies.

Having not had an opportunity to speak, I just want to quickly ask two questions through the chair. One, could we ask Heritage to provide a list to the committee of the organizations you informed; and two, at what point did the governing party learn that this was happening?

[An hon. member]

That's not a point of order.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I didn't say it was.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.

The department has heard the questions, and along with the figures that have been previously requested, we'll ask that they respond to those questions as well, through the clerk, who will then distribute them to all members of the committee.

Thank you very much for your testimony.

Without further ado, we'll suspend for five minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We're on to committee business and the selection of witnesses. I'm going to suggest, as chair, that we go in camera for this, as we normally would, but I'm going to leave it to the will of the committee.

First Mr. Trottier, and then Monsieur Godin.

[An hon. member]

I think that's what he wants to propose.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Since we will be talking about committee work and about the list of witnesses for the coming weeks, I have no objection to the meeting going in camera.