Official Languages Committee on Dec. 4th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Fraser. You are a regular guest, which is good because you have a lot of information we need.

It is much easier to learn a language when a person is young. I think everyone accepts that fact. You recommend suggesting to the minister that the provinces be encouraged to provide bilingual education at the post-secondary level and to increase the number of such programs provided to students at the high school level.

Why have you not recommended that this start at a young age, in primary school?

[Graham Fraser]

There are two reasons for that. First, I think that education at the primary and high school levels is jealously guarded by the provinces. It's under provincial jurisdiction, whereas at the post-secondary level—research, grants and so on—collaboration with the federal government is generally accepted.

The second reason is that I am seeing a certain cascading influence that the federal government is having on universities. In fact, the government and the deputy ministers play a recruiting role by sending the message that the government, as the largest employer in Canada, needs bilingual employees. This may bring universities to send the message to high schools that they need to stress French or English in francophone institutions.

One of the problems is that the rate the students drop French after grade nine in Ontario is very high, given that it ceases to be mandatory. As Mr. Dion mentioned, there is no obligation in western Ontario. So there students drop it.

A high school student told me that his teacher said that, at the end of high school, the students should choose to take a core French exam rather than an immersion exam because it was easier. So they would get a better mark. He said that the universities only look at the grade when evaluating admission applications. I think that just encourages mediocrity. Universities should look at the pool of candidates and consider the ones that have taken more difficult courses as major candidates.

In fact, more and more, we are seeing universities recognizing the importance of this pool of immersion students and even competing for them. For example, there are programs to attract them at the University of Ottawa. Glendon College, on the York University campus, conducts a campaign to recruit immersion students.

But too many universities only look at the numbers, which doesn't concern them. Others do not see the need to provide students with those opportunities because they say that the federal government will take care of them if they hire them as employees.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I'm sorry for stopping you there, but I have a lot of questions and not much time.

[Graham Fraser]

I'm sorry. I talk too much.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

One of the witnesses we had in the past few weeks suggested that all the events across the country for the 150^th anniversary of Confederation should be completely bilingual. What do you think of that suggestion?

[Graham Fraser]

I think it would depend on the nature of the celebrations. During the 125^th anniversary, there were…

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

She said that every celebration across the country should be completely bilingual.

[Graham Fraser]

Please let me finish.

For the 125^th anniversary, a program encouraged people to organize neighbourhood parties. I don't think we should impose that kind of rule on neighbourhood parties, be it in a francophone neighbourhood or an extremely anglophone one.

We can draw a distinction between two kinds of celebrations. If the federal government is supporting the event financially and there is an agreement signed by Canadian Heritage, a language clause is necessary. If the celebration is a local one, in a city neighbourhood, and the residents have taken the initiative to organize it, that's another thing. I think things will be different for large-scale events headed and funded by the federal government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Ms. Michaud, you have the floor.

Actually, no, it's Mr. Benskin.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

You'll have to excuse my lack of voice today, but I'll soldier on.

Thank you, all, for being here, Madame Charlebois, Monsieur Giguère, Madame Tremblay, and of course, Commissioner Fraser.

I want to touch on a few things and I have very little time.

In your presentation you mentioned the good things that have been overlooked that have happened in the cases of linguistic duality. Alongside that, my colleagues, Monsieur Godin and Monsieur Dion, expressed concerns about the direction this government was going in with the closure of the search and rescue station and so forth. One of the things that has almost been overlooked also is the closure of la bibliothèque de l'Institut Maurice-Lamontagne, which is the only francophone library that deals with—

[Graham Fraser]

Marine science.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

—marine science.

The thing I'm concerned about along with that is what seems to be overlooked about the impact of this, not on a fiscal level but on a socio-political level. For me, even as an anglophone, it screams at me, “You don't matter”.

The closing of the only francophone search and rescue station would say to me, if I were a francophone, and even as an anglophone, “You don't matter”. The closing of this library, which is a resource for ocean science in French, says to me, “You don't matter”. That's a huge concern to me. I'd like you to comment on that.

I'd also like you to comment on something on the reverse of that, which I think is being overlooked.

We've heard from a number of witnesses from out west over the last little while about the lineups of families who want to send their kids to immersion schools, but there aren't the resources for that. What would you think of a possible legacy project for this 150th anniversary celebration that we're putting together to put in place a program to allow teachers from French-speaking areas—from the Acadian community and from the Québécois community—to go west and fill the need for immersion teachers, to which they could bring not only their knowledge of the language but also the culture at preschool and higher levels?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Let me just say one thing. I don't mind questions about

the rescue centre or libraries, for instance.

However, the questions have to relate in some way to 2017, so tie them in to 2017.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Well it's tied in as part of asking how we are going to celebrate 2017—

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

That's fine, as long as it's in that context.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

—when we're creating the situation that says, “You don't matter”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

That kind of question I don't mind—

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

There you go.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

—if it ties in to the study. Our analyst is looking for information and answers to help her formulate the report so that we have—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

On a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I think it's important. We're going to celebrate in 2017 and right now we're losing an institution that is important. If you're celebrating the Confederation of Canada, we have to tell the truth of what's happening. I don't think the taxpayers should lose money here about how you're going to celebrate when you're losing institutions left and right and it's always on one side. We're losing right now and it has to be said, especially as the commissioner is here. I think it is very important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I agree.

Thank you.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.