Evidence of meeting #73 for Official Languages in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was positions.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
However, it must not have the power to remove positions.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
It must not have the power to do so without going through Parliament.
You must know that there is a rating system to assess bilingualism. Level A indicates a beginner’s level. Level B indicates an intermediary level and level C indicates an advanced level. Generally, C-B-C is required for the highest level; the first C is for an advanced oral level, the B is for an acceptable writing level, and the second C is for someone who is able to read with no problem. You chose not to refer to that. Is there a reason for that? Saying “without the aid of an interpreter” can in fact be interpreted in a number of ways. If you were to use that rating system, there would be more guarantees. We would have our cake and be able to eat it too.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
We thought about it. We wanted to be sort of more in line with the Official Languages Act and the legislation dealing with federal court judges, which do not have specific criteria either. Their wording is similar. They say that it is important to understand the interpreter and to be able to communicate clearly in both languages. The potential problem with criteria is that they can evolve. A C-B-C level from 20 years ago is probably no longer the same as the one we have today. So we did not want to set criteria like that in the legislation; we said that we would leave it the way it is.
Furthermore, we must not forget that, for each of those positions—as I mentioned a number of times—the appointment is made by the House or the Senate. So those people will appear before the committee. If those people who are supposed to be bilingual come to meet with us, I think we will have an opportunity as parliamentarians to ask them questions and therefore assess their level of bilingualism.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Did you decide to develop a new act right from the start or did you look at the possibility of amending the Official Languages Act?
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
We found that there were a number of ways to get to the same result. Amending the act was one of them. We consulted with the law clerks of the House of Commons. We talked about the issue. We were told to proceed in this fashion. An amendment to the Official Languages Act is not really required. We also consulted the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages. The commissioner agreed and confirmed that this bill would complement the act without an amendment being required.
Basically, we are talking about two different ways of doing things. Ultimately, our preferred option was the one recommended by the law clerks.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
So can you confirm to this committee that your bill does not amend other acts?
3:50 p.m.
NDP
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
That is what came out during all the consultations. That is what we were told. I am pretty sure about that.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
I would like you to talk about the benefits of your bill for all those bodies, according to the following principle.
I will say that in English, because why are we speaking only in French about something that will affect both official languages? It's not the right way.
Isn't it true that if the head is not bilingual, the body is in danger of not being bilingual as well? If the commissioner doesn't understand the French language, then the whole system, the whole apparatus will speak only English.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
That is very common. When the head of an institution speaks only one of the two languages, all the other people have to adapt and speak that language only. That definitely happens very often and that is what we don’t want. We want to promote as much as possible the requirement to understand and speak both languages. Clearly, the best message we can send is when those at the helm of those organizations are able to speak and understand both languages. There is no question about it.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Latendresse, thank you for appearing before the committee today.
One of the committee’s roles is to ask for clarifications about the bill. So I have a few questions about that.
First of all, regarding the wording “without interpreter”, did you find other acts or regulations in your research that use this definition of bilingualism?
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Yes. The Official Languages Act uses it. We really drew inspiration from that act, especially the part on the appointment of judges to federal courts. Paragraph 16(1)(c) says to ensure that, “if both English and French are the languages chosen by the parties for proceedings conducted before it in any particular case, every judge or other officer who hears those proceedings is able to understand both languages without the assistance of an interpreter”. Our wording is based on that. We thought that, if this works for our federal courts and for the bilingualism requirement for our judges and since the criterion is very similar, it could apply to my bill.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you.
Were there other acts that used the same definition of bilingualism?
3:55 p.m.
NDP
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
My next question is about the offices. I see that you have basically used masculine language to refer to those positions, such as “vérificateur”, “directeur” and “président” in the French version.
I am guessing that you weren't trying to exclude women.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Were you advised to use the masculine form only?
