Official Languages Committee on March 26th, 2013

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It's a point of privilege.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. O'Toole.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Madame Latendresse, particularly for your very eloquent opening statement. I now know you're a fan of poetry, and it was evident in your remarks. I particularly liked your description of your bill being one stone in the building of our national Parliament, so hopefully you won't mind our side helping to place that stone to make sure the foundation is strong.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

My two questions relate to clauses 3 and 4.

The first is, in your opening remarks and in response to questions from my colleagues, you described the positions as 10 very important ones, and that you were in Saint Boniface or where have you, and people understand those positions. In your opening remarks you also mentioned the fact that language can sometimes be political.

Clause 3 is, as Mr. Trottier referred to, sort of open-ended. It's maybe an order. It is not done in Parliament, so wouldn't you agree that the principles I think you're fighting for would still be fulfilled if that clause were removed?

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I think what's important is to understand that there is no real problem with adding positions to the list.

There is no problem with adding some of those positions in the event, as I was talking about, there's a new officer of Parliament, for example. That's the reason we put in that provision. We were thinking it could be a good thing to add some positions if something new were to happen.

As we said, if it's Parliament that adds some of those positions, it's not really a problem. It's just that, in our opinion, it's preferable that the Governor in Council be able to add one. If something were to happen, we would want to do it as quickly as possible.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

To Mr. Trottier's point, if a new officer were created through an act of Parliament, could that act not then amend other acts to....? What I'm saying is, if clause 3 were not there, the principles of your bill, I think, would still be met.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Yes, I think it's possible because we could introduce a bill that would set out what it should include. But, would that be done? Could we not simply give the Governor-in-Council the power to add a position if there was an omission? I don't really see what the problem is with the Governor-in-Council having that power. That is why removing it bothers me a little. Why would we want to remove it? What justification is there for not giving the Governor-in-Council that power? I don't understand.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

My second question relates to clause 4, with respect to an interim appointment. You mentioned that you feel there's a large pool of candidates out there in the event there's a sudden resignation.

Generally I don't like bills that try to predict future scenarios and mandate how a department or a group should react. Building on what Mr. Dion spoke about—the rating system, a candidate with CBC levels—what if somebody at a slightly lower level were a deputy within one of the officer's departments, but didn't meet the appropriate level of bilingualism your bill would recommend? Until that appropriate person was found, would it not be reasonable at least to allow the circumstances for a person who was close to fill the position for an interim period?

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

First of all, there is no official level of bilingualism in my bill. That's why we left it open.... As parliamentarians when we are faced with a nomination of an officer of Parliament, we can evaluate them. If the person considers himself or herself to be bilingual, we can ask questions. We can see if the person is bilingual and if he or she meets the requirements.

In the case of an interim officer, if you are qualified enough to be considered to be an interim auditor general, you have to....You are aware that we are in Canada and that there are two official languages. You can take different measures in order to understand French without the help of an interpreter. I think it's basic.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

Madame Michaud.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

First, I would like to thank my colleague, Ms. Latendresse, for being here, and I congratulate her on her excellent work. Because of her, if we can finish this process quickly, we will be able to avoid the unfortunate situation we had with the Auditor General at the start of our mandate. It was an extremely unfortunate situation that upset a lot of people. The government recognized that it was a mistake. Thanks to you and your relentless work, we will be able to avoid this kind of situation in the future. Thank you.

I would like to clarify something regarding clause 3. You suggest that positions can be added to the list only by resolution of the Senate, the House of Commons or both. That is not actually the case; it is following an appointment that has already been approved by parliamentarians. So we may think that parliamentarians, too, would think that the person to be added would be an officer of Parliament. Is that really what you want to establish with this bill?

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

That's it, which is why the preamble is important to properly understand the various criteria that determine what an officer of Parliament is. We will start out with these 10 positions because they require it right now. As I said, there is no problem with adding more.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

On the contrary.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

It's what we want, and we think it's a good thing.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Exactly. The purpose of this bill is to promote bilingualism and show how important it is. Why limit ourselves? On the contrary, we hope that this will snowball. We are seeing that bilingualism is absolutely necessary for an increasing number of positions.

I have one last quick question because I want to leave time for my colleague, Mr. Benskin.

We heard a few objections that Bill C-419 does not take into account the constitutional right of all Canadians and all parliamentarians to address Parliament in the official language of their choice. Unless I'm mistaken, and perhaps you can explain this to me, Bill C-419 ensures that all Canadians and parliamentarians will be served in the language of their choice. Someone who is an officer of Parliament will be able to decide ahead of time what language he or she wants to use for their presentation, but we want to make sure that the person will be able to answer questions and interact with people in the language of the citizens' or parliamentarians' choice. That's the purpose of the bill, isn't it?

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

That's right. As you said, it strengthens that element because it allows all parliamentarians and Canadians to interact with their Auditor General, with all the officers of Parliament, in the language of their choice, in their mother tongue. It is very important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Monsieur Benskin.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

Congratulations, Ms. Latendresse, for your bill. It's quite interesting.

I will ask my questions in the other official language.

In regard to clause 2, being able to understand English and French without the aid of an interpreter and to express himself or herself clearly in both official languages, there are many times when any one of these agents will be out meeting organizations or people in public where there will be no translation service and so forth.

Am I to assume, or do I interpret well, when you mention in your bill “without the aid of an interpreter”, that their capacity to understand and communicate in both official languages in situations like that is one of the areas you are looking at?

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Yes, it means being able to understand both official languages in all these situations and carrying out their duties. Sometimes they will have to analyze or check certain papers that may have been produced in only one official language. Sometimes the topics may be very delicate. If they had to use a translation, they would lose certain specific elements or nuances that you can only grasp when you understand the language.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

I think we live in a pretty special country with the two official languages. Over the years since official bilingualism has been in play, I know that, for example, the anglophone community in Quebec, the vast majority of young people under the age of 35 at this point, are fluently bilingual, and float between both cultures quite easily. I'm sure the same type of thing can be said for the francophone community outside of Quebec, being able to speak in their second language as eloquently as their mother tongue.

I think there is clearly a fine pool of potential candidates out there, but what's important about this bill is that it sends a message to young people who are in school and have aspirations of being something like one of these officers.

If you want to be Auditor General, it is better to complete your studies in both languages.

Would that be a fair assessment of the message?

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Yes, absolutely. I think it sends an excellent message to anyone who aspires to a position at that level. You need to learn both languages; it's really important, not just to be appointed, but because that is what you need to do this job properly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Lastly, Mr. Gourde, you have the floor.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Latendresse, I would like to come back to something you said. You said that, with 30 million Canadians, it should be relatively easy to find people for these positions. That's what you said earlier, right?

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

There are a lot of bilingual people, but that is not all. We need to stop opposing skills and bilingualism.