Official Languages Committee on Nov. 4th, 2013

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I'd like to answer Mr. Williamson who said that he wanted the committee to work and that is the reason why we should be sitting in camera. I remember one time where we were made to sit in camera during almost two months. Two government members had to leave the room to bring about the decision to go back into public hearings, and after that we were able to begin work on the items on our agenda and buckle down. Otherwise, we would have sat in camera perhaps till Christmas. I remember this.

Indeed, we want to work. However, holding in camera meetings prevent us from working. Certain things are done in camera, such as drafting our reports after having listened to witnesses and examined a bill. That will always be done in camera. However, it is not acceptable to move meetings behind closed doors as soon as you don't like to hear what the opposition has to say.

That is democracy. As members of Parliament, we have the right to express ourselves, and the population has the right to hear what we have to say. It will be making up its mind. By imposing in camera meetings, not only are you trampling the rights of the members, but also the right of Canadians to hear what is going on. Your government claims that it wants transparency; your government was elected thanks to promises of transparency. However, you now state that you want to sit in camera, because you don't want Canadians to hear us. I find this problematic in the extreme. I could not defend that.

Over the weekend, someone said that he would be doing things his way, and justified that in the following way:

“I don't care what they think. I just don't care.”

We feel we are stuck with the vision of your government, and that things have to go your way, otherwise no one will get to hear about it. This is prejudicial to parliamentarians. It eliminates our rights. Moreover, Canadians want to hear us.

As I said, we are not asking that any possibility of working in camera be eliminated. We are simply saying that a lot of things can be done without sitting in camera. That is all that is in our motion.

I would really like you to support it. By doing so, you would show us whether the Conservative government believes in transparency, or whether everything it said in 2006 was false.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Nicholls, you have the floor.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I would like to add to Mr. Williamson's point about politicization and the worry that the committee might get paralyzed by the politics of a situation. The report that Westminster itself did said that some members are keen to use their privilege in parliament in select committees to improve legislation, while others obviously use that privilege to expose weaknesses in the government.

You could point out that pointing out weaknesses in the government continually is more politics than improving the legislation, but that's for Canadians to judge. If we are under the public gaze, Canadians will judge who is playing politics and will punish the parties responsible for doing so, but without that transparency and openness, the Canadian public cannot know if any political shenanigans are going on. They're kept in the dark.

Don't you believe it's better that Canadians know what is going on in parliamentary committees rather than not know what's going on? If one or the other party, the government party or the opposition, is playing politics and using procedural tactics to jam up things, the public should know that's going on.

Our motion is responsible in the fact that we are limiting the use of in camera to what has been traditionally in camera and not misusing in camera to avoid members who might want to expose weaknesses of the government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Nicholls.

I'd like to remind members that if they're going to direct comments to individual members to do it through the chair. It makes it less confrontational.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I simply want to say that my comments were not addressed directly to Mr. Williamson, but that I was speaking through you, Mr. Chair. In fact, I was only commenting Mr. Williamson's remarks. I was not attacking him personally.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Mr. Williamson, you have the floor.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Mr. Chair, I will be brief.

When witnesses appear before us, they have the opportunity of criticizing the government or of providing us with positive ideas. Sometimes, they may have better ideas than those of the government.

This committee has the opportunity of meeting Canadians to discuss government bills. As a member of the committee, I think that when we discuss the business of the committee, we should do so in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Are there any other comments?

Okay, seeing no other members who wish to speak to the motion in front of the committee, I will call the question.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I request a recorded vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

It's a recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

Now, if you will, we are going to discuss the eight following routine motions.

Would you like to adopt all of them together?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

You want to discuss each motion separately? Very well.

Mr. Godin, did you want to move a motion?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to move the following motion, which concerns the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure:

That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair and two vice-chairs, another member of the government party...

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

You have changed it this time.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, I changed it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Could you repeat your motion, Mr. Godin?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes. Here it is:

That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair and two vice-chairs, another member of the government party, and the parliamentary secretary, and that quorum...

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Its intent is exactly the same as that of the original motion.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

No, because I am adding this:

[...] and that quorum be set at three (3) members, one of which shall be one (1) member of the government party and one (1) member of the opposition, and that each member be authorized to be accompanied by one member of his staff, and in addition that each party be authorized to have one representative present.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I am going to repeat your motion for the members of the committee:

That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair and the two vice-chairs, plus another member of the government party and the parliamentary secretary, and that quorum be set at three (3) members, one of which shall be one (1) member of the government and one (1) member of the opposition; and that each member be authorized to be accompanied by a member of his or her staff, and that each party be authorized to have a representative present.

Is that clear?

Is there debate?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Clearly we are going to oppose this, Mr. Chair.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

What did he say?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

The member said that he was going to vote against your motion.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Ms. Bateman, you have the floor.