Official Languages Committee on May 13th, 2014

[Jacques Dubé]

In part, and that's part of the issue, but really, that CIC office was there to take applications and manage relationships. Now people have to drive to Fredericton, which is an hour and a half away. It's not that helpful. We're trying to fill the void ourselves now.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

But in terms of retention, as well, you don't want Moncton to be a springboard for other cities. If they can't get the services they need inside Moncton—

[Jacques Dubé]

Correct.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

—to stay there, then they'll go to another city. Really, that's one of the challenges that you've mentioned, but thank you.

[Jacques Dubé]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nicholls.

Thank you, Mr. Dubé.

Mr. Daniel.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here.

Along the same sort of line, I'm guessing that the unemployment rate in New Brunswick is pretty low, because you're recruiting lots of immigrants, etc. Is that true or false?

[Jacques Dubé]

That would be false, just because it's hovering around 10% province-wide. There is a north-south divide. It's more—

[Patrick Colford]

It's 21% in the north.

[Jacques Dubé]

Yes, 21% in the north. In Moncton, you're looking at 7%, in that area.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

I'd like to just pursue this question of literacy. I really don't understand how anybody can exist these days in a country like Canada without being literate. There must be a reason for this high level of illiteracy. The reason why I say that is, people would have learned how to read. It's not a high school thing. It's something that's done in primary school, where they learn literacy, at least start to learn literacy, right?

So the question is, you know, there must be sufficient jobs in the province for people who are illiterate to be able to get those jobs and stay there. Is that true or false?

[Patrick Colford]

I believe that was true at one time. As I've had someone tell me who used to work in the logging industry, you didn't need grade 12 to go into the woods and cut a cord of pulp and sell. But these days, with technology coming in, you do need grade 12 and beyond to run a harvester in the woods. People got by being illiterate. I have family members who, to this day, are illiterate. I'm not proud to say it by any means, but this is just the way it is. There's a lack of opportunity sometimes.

Also, we try to fast-track so much now that some people do get left behind—I hate to say it but it is very true—and those are the ones who get left behind. At the end of the day, they just don't have the skills. It's been kind of on a back burner, you know, “You'll catch up. You'll catch up.” But you get so frustrated—and I think that kind of speaks to the dropout rates also—and once you get frustrated, you just say, “Okay, listen. That's it. I'm not going any further.”

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Would you like to comment on that?

[Armand Caron]

In terms of the New Brunswick economy, particularly in the northern part of the province, the other challenge we have is seasonal employment. Over 25% of New Brunswickers work seasonal jobs. I agree with what Mr. Godin said at the very beginning. People would have a lot of time outside of their periods of work to continue their training and fix the problems you mentioned.

It is unfortunate that 60% of our population do not have Level 3 literacy, and something must be done to fix that. It is sad to be mentioning that number, but I think we need to find ways to solve the problem. We do not want to simply provide numbers; we have to find solutions. To do that, we need training programs, and the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick would be very pleased to be able to contribute to that effort.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Based on all of that, what do you think the priorities of the francophone and Acadian communities are in the area of economic development? If they are different from those in the rest of Canada, why do you think this is the case? Do you actually have a plan?

Perhaps, Mr. Dubé, you could start with a comment on that.

[Jacques Dubé]

Sorry, could you repeat the question?

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

The question was: what are the priorities for the francophone and Acadian communities in the area of economic development? In other words, you've talked about strategy. You've talked about all sorts of occasions where you've had meetings from international bodies, etc., in your province—and city, I guess. But what is there that's been set up that you are thinking strategically, specifically for the minority community there, to develop economically?

[Jacques Dubé]

I think, at the end of the day, the question of economic development is not about language. It's really about economic opportunity and a sound business plan. We have, in greater Moncton, a number of organizations like the Conseil économique du Nouveau-Brunswick, which has its head office in Moncton, and the Chambre de commerce Française au Canada. We are members of both of those organizations. There's a lot of networking that goes on amongst the French-speaking entrepreneurs, generally speaking.

When we look at economic development strategies, we're not really looking at it from that perspective. We're looking at it more from the perspective of what's our financial services sector? We have the largest financial services sector in Atlantic Canada. We're the largest financial services sector east of Montreal, in Moncton. That's a growth area. That financial services sector doesn't grow because, necessarily, it's run by francophones or anglophones. It grows because they get export contracts. Blue Cross or Assumption Mutual Life go out and get business, whether it's from anglophone clients or francophone clients. The strategy is really sector-driven. We have a lot of strength in the area, as I mentioned, of financial services but we also have a lot of strengths in the area of logistics. The largest trucking companies in Canada are located in Moncton. We have a great health care industry and a great education industry, whether it's publicly or privately funded. We're really driving it from a sectoral perspective and not really from a linguistic perspective.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Mr. Colford, from your experience as a workers' representative, what are you and your organization doing to transition to some of these jobs we've heard about, the IT businesses that were set up, etc? For these jobs you have to have literacy, have to have a level of education, and those are high-paying jobs that can stay in your region.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. Daniel.

[Patrick Colford]

Personally, from the New Brunswick Federation of Labour's point of view, we sit on numerous committees and coalitions helping to build the province and trying to come up with solutions. These coalitions or groups, if you will, committees, are made up of educational institutions, labour, of course, business, and in this job, as Mr. Caron mentioned, we as the Federation of Labour were a big contributor to that in having labour's voice.

We're working on those things but at the end of the day I guess the biggest challenge is those people who don't have the skills and they just.... The easiest way to put it is that there are two types of people in a lot of communities in New Brunswick. There are the people who can't wait to get out and the people who don't want to get out. We need to focus on those people who don't want to get out and on making sure that they can make a livelihood and stay in their communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. Colford.

Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I was not planning on speaking again, but I want to respond to what I have just heard.

The reality is that people have left northern New Brunswick. You said it yourself, Mr. Dubé. If things are going well in Moncton, it is because people there have taken charge of their own lives with the help of an action plan. The government was part of those efforts. However, it was nowhere to be found in northern New Brunswick. The government supported the arrival of call centres for businesses such as Xerox in Moncton, Air Canada in Saint-John, and CIBC in Fredericton. There is also the Bank of Montreal in Moncton. I can guarantee you that, if the government had had those institutions set up shop in the northern part of the province, on the Acadian Peninsula, we would not be having these problems today.

I do not accept that people from northern New Brunswick are all illiterate and that nobody knows how to read or write. The reality is that 1,300 students graduate each year, but those students go off to the Université de Moncton and do not return home. People in the northern part of the province are not all illiterate. If you went to Moncton and asked people where they came from, you would not have enough fingers to count everyone from northern New Brunswick.

Mr. Dubé, do you agree with me?

[Jacques Dubé]

I agree in part and I will explain why.

First, I agree that people have left northern New Brunswick and have moved to the south-eastern part of the province. This is because there are high quality jobs and Acadian educational institutions there.

However, people do often also attend the Shippagan campus of the Université de Moncton. As Mr. Colford just mentioned, the problem we face is related to available jobs once students have completed their studies.

You said that the government did not do enough in the north of the province. However, the provincial and current federal governments especially have invested considerable amounts in the north.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Dubé, you acknowledge that jobs in the call centres in the northern part of New Brunswick were minimum-wage jobs.