Official Languages Committee on May 13th, 2014

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

—so, in a sense, you're operating in a job creation environment.

[Jacques Dubé]

Yes. Absolutely. The participation rate is very high. We have an unemployment issue and a labour shortage at the same time. In 2015 we're looking at over 3,000 unfilled jobs in Moncton, and we have to fix that. We're trying to fix it, but it's very challenging because of the baby boomer bubble that's bursting.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Whatever you're doing in Moncton, just keep doing it. It is a source of pride in the province, where you have Fredericton as the government operation that will benefit, Saint John with its oil and gas, and then of course Moncton and the entrepreneurial spirit.

Mr. Colford, you've decried the lack of industrial strategy growth sectors, yet I notice your organization has come out against shale gas. I find that a bit odd. You're concerned about job creation in New Brunswick and about our young people moving to western Canada and taking jobs, yet you're not prepared to consider that your group opposes in eastern Canada the same industry they're working for in western Canada. You're happy to accept transfers from that same industry. Yet you decry—and I understand this—the exodus of francophones and anglophones, and what that does to community. You have to explain that, please.

[Patrick Colford]

That's not a problem.

We've called for a moratorium largely because of not enough health regulations and not knowing the health implications of unconventional fracking. One may and will make the argument that fracking has been done for a century, and yes, it has. This unconventional fracking bothers us. It's only been done for 10 to 12 years. Until it can be proven safe, we in New Brunswick don't want another DDT or asbestos problem that we're going to find out about 30 years down the road. That's the biggest reason we've opposed it.

Currently around 23 wells are operating in Penobsquis. Six people are employed there. When I spoke to the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, I asked how many were local; they answered that they're local now. I must say I laughed in her face, because I told her I could move to Fort McMurray tomorrow, and in two week's time I'd be calling myself a local. The jobs aren't there at this point.

I don't know if you follow the news, but there were some protests in Elsipogtog.

When we're being told of these jobs, I must ask how any government can dictate to a company that they only hire locals, because those people who were on the ground running the seismic testing were not New Brunswickers; they were brought in. As you said, I have friends who are out west doing seismic testing.

If this is the case and this is going to bring our people home, why hasn't it happened already?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I think if you take a sample size of six and at the same time oppose growth.... I'm not going to get into a debate because these are political questions now, but 50 years of natural gas exploration and development in British Columbia has been successful, and we've seen how Saskatchewan—

[Patrick Colford]

Sorry, sir, but it is not the unconventional fracking that will be done in New Brunswick. It is conventional fracking. It has been proven safe—largely.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

On the argument about conventional or unconventional, if you took that approach.... When it comes to oil exploration in Alberta, the growth would not have happened there if entrepreneurs had said, it's new, it's untested, it's untried, and we shouldn't do it. The challenge for government is to put in place regulations to have this growth, not to sit on our laurels and wait for someone else to do it. That's effectively what you're advocating; if they could do it, they should do it elsewhere—

[Patrick Colford]

No. I agree with you—

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

It's—

[Patrick Colford]

I do agree with you, and this may not happen too often. But I will agree with you that, you know, it.... Also, DDT was safe, and asbestos was safe, and we now know that.... So why, without knowing it's safe, would we risk that and put future generations at risk?

But the other issue is that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. We have—

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Do you consider any development in the United States unconventional as well, like what we've seen in North Dakota? Or is New Brunswick this unique unconventional development?

[Patrick Colford]

The beautiful thing about this—it goes back to what you're saying—is that every group or every government always says they have the best regulations. Whoever comes along afterwards says they always have the best, so—

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. Thank you very much.

[Patrick Colford]

—I'm wondering if we have the best regulations for it as we go forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Williamson and Mr. Colford. I appreciate the exchange of information there.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We'll lastly and quickly go to Monsieur Côté.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us.

Mr. Dubé, I found your presentation very interesting, especially when you talked about bilingualism is an economic asset and that it is not an expense, but rather a real investment. You are sending a strong message there.

Regarding investments and the economic outlook, I will not hide the fact that we have a difficult time getting the government to pay attention to the real issues. For example, the government could invest in our future by improving the Canada Pension Plan, but in its speeches, it is in the habit of portraying initiatives like that as a tax. This shows how far out in left field it is.

Coming back to your presentation, the situation in Moncton is quite interesting because it is similar to what happened in Quebec City. Our city went from being in an economic downturn in the middle of the 1990s—I had just graduated from university at that time—to being very much a remarkably vibrant city with full employment.

Given the efforts over the past 30 years, how did the federal government help you? Did it miss opportunities to help you or could it do more to support growth?

[Jacques Dubé]

Thank you very much.

I believe the federal government could play a much bigger role with entrepreneurs. We have economic development agencies in the regions. In ours, it is ACOA. Earlier, someone mentioned secondary and tertiary processing. There are federal organizations, particularly Export Development Canada and the Business Development Bank of Canada, but some of them could work much more closely with entrepreneurs. Jobs are created by entrepreneurs, not by governments. I think there has to be more communication with entrepreneurs individually and that it has to be targeted by sector.

ACOA already works with entrepreneurs to develop exports. Could it do more and provide more support? Yes, it could do more in Moncton than in the northern part of the province. Earlier we talked about the challenge facing the regions in New Brunswick. Entrepreneurs are not looking for bureaucracy. They do not want more interventions from the government. What they want is specific assistance to meet their immediate needs. This is the kind of thing that could help them.

There is also the issue of training for trades. Today, it is difficult to find a mechanic, a plumber or an electrician. In Moncton, we have the same problem. I just hired two plumbers for the City of Moncton. I had a very hard time finding them. We have to encourage more young people, even people who have lost their jobs, to choose the trades. We should also be giving them direct grants, specifically so that they can get the training they need. We need to help them out a little more if we want to encourage them to do so.

Infrastructure is also important. The municipality of Moncton is no different from other Canadian municipalities; it also has infrastructure problems. Our infrastructure deficit has now reached about $150 million. It is a small city, but it still has a high infrastructure deficit. We are pleased to see the federal government invest in infrastructure, but we would definitely like to have more support.

The problem in New Brunswick is that the provincial government is having financial problems. It has a debt of nearly $12 billion. For small provinces with limited financial capacity, it can be a challenge to right away inject as much money as federal programs provide. We are not all as lucky as Alberta, which has it revenues from royalties and natural resources. This is why we also need support for infrastructure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay, thank you.

Thank you to everyone for your testimony.

We'll suspend just for a minute before we reconvene for the consideration of Madame St-Denis' motion.

This meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We will resume this meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, which is in public session. We will now deal with Ms. St-Denis's motion.

Mr. Gourde, you have the floor.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Could we continue in camera, since we will be dealing with future business? I move a motion to that effect.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. Mr. Gourde has moved a motion that we continue in camera.

Yes, Mr. Godin?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, should someone who has moved a motion not speak to it?