Official Languages Committee on Nov. 27th, 2013

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Gourde.

Ms. St-Denis, you have the floor.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question will be on your recommendation concerning initiatives to raise the level of bilingualism within the Canadian population.

This afternoon, during the last part of question period, six questions were asked in French. Three ministers responded only in English, while two anglophone ministers answered in French. In another instance, a minister started to answer in French and, even though he is a francophone, he finished his answer in English. That's the situation.

In your opinion, does the limited use of French as a working language in the House, among other places, contravene the Official Languages Act? Could this have a negative effect on the promotion of linguistic duality in Canada?

[Graham Fraser]

We made that recommendation based on statistics provided by Statistics Canada concerning the drop in the percentage of Canadians who are bilingual, Canadians who speak both official languages. We have also seen that over a 10-year period there has been a 24% drop in the number of anglophone students who are studying French as a second language.

As for the use of English and French in the House, any MP or minister has the right to use the official language of his or her choice. The act does not apply. There are no rules that say that a minister must answer a question in the language in which it was asked. That is why, in 1958, simultaneous interpretation was introduced in the House.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Fine, but would you not be able to make some proposals? This situation does not really promote bilingualism. Obviously, no minister will answer in French when the question has been asked in English. I'm not talking about questions that have been asked in English.

Is there something that you could do here? A recommendation, an incentive?

[Graham Fraser]

It is something I could discuss but I think that this is an MP's right, just as voters have the right to elect the representative of their choice without concern as to whether or not that person is bilingual. I should also note that it is up to the Prime Minister to choose ministers from among his or her MP's. This is a difficult question, in my opinion.

There is another factor that I noticed when I was a journalist. Often, the language of the answer is chosen according to how the speaker wants the answer to be shown on television. That's a political reality.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

That is true.

[Graham Fraser]

My role does not allow me to criticize a politician concerning their right to speak in the language of their choice. A minister who is answering a question on a delicate issue or a hot political topic will often need to use the language in which he or she is the most eloquent. I would be very reluctant to make a recommendation concerning the use of one language or another in the House.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would like to discuss a second problem that you mention in your report. Specifically, it is what you call active offer. There are a lot of signs in French and in English in airports or in federal institutions, which is good, but the active offer is declining just about everywhere. A press release from the Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador indicates that, in one year, the active offer had dropped by 12%.

Do you plan to make any suggestions in this area? Can you intervene concerning the active offer?

[Graham Fraser]

You have brought up a point that we find troubling. Commissioner after commissioner has found, from one report to another, that active offer is not part of the culture of the federal government and of the institutions subject to the act. We have made recommendations in this area in previous reports. Right now, my office is looking at how we should tackle this issue. It is clear that, to date, my recommendations and my observations, as well as those of my predecessors, have not had an impact.

The only positive example that I can give you of an institution that has made an effort to integrate the active offer into what I would call its culture, is Parks Canada. Before the Olympic Games, this organization prepared a video to explain to its unilingual employees what they should do if someone asks them for service in the other official language. Parks Canada created an entire system to explain to their employees how to act in such instances.

We subsequently audited the program, and it was clear that it had worked well. However, for programs like this to work, there must be culture change. In the private sector, certain coffee companies identify their coffee in a third language. This is part of the way those businesses present themselves, part of their culture. I believe that it is possible. In any case, you have brought up a sensitive issue that my office is currently looking at.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Do I have the time to make a suggestion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

No.

There will be another round of questions and you will have the opportunity to ask the commissioner another question.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

All right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Ms. Bateman, over to you.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank all of the witnesses for joining us today. Your presence is very helpful to us.

Mr. Fraser, I have two questions to ask you, and maybe a third, if I have the time.

First of all, what procedures have you put in place to ensure that the departments, when they react to your recommendations, base their actions on the observed facts?

[Graham Fraser]

To make sure that our observations are factual?

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Or what was reported to you.

[Graham Fraser]

All right.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

What is the verification process?

[Graham Fraser]

I will explain the process that we follow when we receive a complaint. First of all, I send a letter to the deputy minister or to the president of the institution that is the subject of the complaint. This letter indicates that we have received a complaint alleging that an incident has taken place, that we will investigate according to a section of the act, and that, if there are questions, they can be addressed to the analyst responsible for the investigation.

The analyst then contacts someone at the department, an official languages coordinator or an official languages champion. We try to establish the facts, whether or not the allegations are true, and if the complaint is well founded.

I should have explained that first we evaluate whether or not the complaint is admissible, whether or not it deals with part of the act, whether or not the institution in question is subject to the act, and whether or not the incident took place at a specific time. If someone sends me a letter saying that one institution or another hates francophones, well, that's unfortunate, but that is not an admissible complaint. However, if the person says that they were unable to receive service in French on flight 871, on July 25, 2013, that is an admissible complaint.

After we have determined if the complaint is admissible, we begin an investigation and we send a preliminary report to the institution. We indicate that they have 30 days, I think, to answer and to give us their version of the facts. If we have made any mistakes, or if we have misunderstood how the department works, we take the necessary corrective measures.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

That is good. I feel reassured.

[Graham Fraser]

We then decide whether or not the complaint has merit. Sometimes, determining whether a complaint is without merit requires just as much work as determining that it has merit. Some complainants who are unsatisfied with our decision ask for time to appeal it. The complainants also can turn to the Federal Court if they believe we have made an error.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

You made several mentions of horizontal coordination initiatives currently under way across the federal government. I wonder whether Heritage Canada, which is responsible for official languages, has responded to your enquiries on that subject.

[Graham Fraser]

When we verified the responsibilities with respect to federal-provincial agreements, we did indeed receive very good collaboration.

Sylvain, could you please provide more details on that subject?

[Sylvain Giguère]

If I am not mistaken, you mean the horizontal coordination done by Heritage Canada pursuant to part VII of the act which covers all federal institutions.

We had very good discussions with Heritage Canada and we know the department is doing some good core work.