Official Languages Committee on June 16th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call the meeting to order.

Before I begin, I'd like to point out that yesterday, as you know, the Senate passed Bill C‑13 by a majority vote without any amendments. I don't think there are any more Liberals in the Senate, they're all independents now. So I want to congratulate the whole team, because a lot of ink and sweat went into it.

Welcome to the 64th meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

In accordance with Standing Order 108(3) and the motion adopted by the committee on April 21, 2023, the committee is meeting to continue its study on increasing francophone immigration to Canada.

I wish to inform the committee that all MPs and witnesses have completed the required connection tests prior to the meeting. However, one of the witnesses had a scheduling conflict at the time of these tests. When he joins us virtually, we will pause briefly to do a sound test. All the others who are present virtually have done their sound tests.

To ensure that the meeting runs smoothly, I'd like to pass on some instructions to the witnesses and members.

Before speaking, please wait for me to recognize you by name. If you are participating in the meeting by videoconference, click on the microphone icon to activate it. Please mute your microphone when not speaking.

As far as interpretation is concerned, those present by Zoom have a choice at the bottom of their screen between the floor, English and French. Those in the room can use their headphones and select the desired language channel.

I remind you that all comments from members and witnesses must be addressed to the chair.

I'd now like to welcome our witnesses: Florence Ngenzebuhoro, president and CEO, and Aissa Nauthoo, vice-president, both from the Centre francophone du Grand Toronto; Marie-Josée Chouinard, vice-president of Talents internationaux et investissements étrangers, from Québec International; and Alain Laberge, who will be joining us shortly, from the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine. All are with us by videoconference.

Ms. Ngenzebuhoro, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Florence Ngenzebuhoro, Chief Executive Officer, Centre francophone du grand Toronto]

Good morning.

My name is Florence Ngenzebuhoro and I am the president and CEO of the Centre francophone du grand Toronto. I'm very honoured to be here this morning. I am accompanied by the vice-president, Ms. Aissa Nauthoo, whom I also consider an expert in francophone immigration.

As president and CEO of the Centre francophone du Grand Toronto, I want to thank you for this opportunity to share our observations and potential solutions pertaining to the challenges and opportunities associated with the increase in francophone immigration, as well as settlement services needs across Canada.

The centre is a multi-service organization that helps and supports over 50,000 French-speaking individuals each year. It has over 25 years of experience in providing settlement services to French-speaking newcomers in the Greater Toronto Area and throughout Canada.

Through our mandate to welcome and refer all francophone, anglophone and allophone newcomers arriving at Pearson Airport, the centre is the gateway and first experience of many newcomers to Canada. We also offer a wide range of complementary services to help newcomers integrate. This includes legal aid services managed by Ms. Aissa Nauthoo, who is with me today, employability and entrepreneurship services, primary and mental health care, and housing support. We thus strive to provide all of the services a newcomer to Canada might need.

As a result, the centre has a unique view of newcomers' needs and services issues along the continuum. We will share with you some of our findings and suggested solutions on how to better meet the needs of French-speaking newcomers.

Our findings are as follows. Since the implementation of French-language services at Pearson airport in 2019—we are very grateful to the federal government for offering this opportunity to francophones—we have noted challenges related to access to immigration services, and this applies throughout the continuum of services. We find that the journey of French-speaking immigrants, from their country of origin and after their arrival in Canada, is not always very complete or seamless. We know this from experience, because we are able to follow immigrants from their host country to the city where they settle.

For example, we've noticed that French-speaking newcomers arriving at Pearson airport aren't always aware of the services available, or haven't obtained enough information about these services prior to their arrival. Also, for those French-speaking newcomers who received reception and referral services at Pearson airport, i.e., those we welcomed, we found that they did not always contact settlement services or know about settlement services in their destination city. Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada also presents administrative challenges and issues related to processing times for immigrant files, whether for those already on Canadian soil or those abroad.

These findings have highlighted some issues pertaining to the lack of systematic access to the services necessary for the successful integration of francophone newcomers throughout the continuum of services. In addition, there is a lack of coordination of settlement services and a lack of concerted effort between all participants in the continuum of services for francophone immigration to ensure that newcomers have an uninterrupted experience of support and services for successful integration. There's also an administrative slowness, which I've already mentioned.

In reality, then, what's missing is a pan-Canadian, systemic and collective approach to collecting, analyzing and sharing information relevant to coordination and co‑operation between pre-departure, reception and settlement services, which limits the ability of francophone newcomers to take full advantage of reception and settlement services.

I'm going to present a few possible solutions. We recommend an integrated approach to facilitating access and referral to services for francophone newcomers, from pre-departure to arrival and settlement. We recommend strengthening data and information sharing among the various stakeholders involved in the continuum of services to increase the effectiveness of support offered to francophone newcomers. We recommend improving in‑person support in immigrants' countries of origin. Finally, we recommend that more consular offices be opened in other French-speaking countries, especially in areas where the great distances between offices make it hard for people wanting to immigrate to Canada to access them.

To conclude—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Ms. Ngenzebuhoro. The five minutes are up. I want everyone to have a chance to speak, but you will have another opportunity when you respond to questions.

Ms. Chouinard, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marie-Josée Chouinard, Vice-President, International Talents and Foreign Investment, Québec International]

Mr. Chair, Vice-Chairs, members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, I would like to begin by thanking you for the interest you have shown in Québec International by agreeing to invite us to participate in the efforts toward increased francophone immigration to Canada. lt is an honour for me to have the opportunity to discuss this subject with you.

As a regional economic development agency, Québec International promotes business growth, supports key clusters and attracts talent and investment to the area. In the current context of labour scarcity in the province of Quebec, and especially in the National Capital and Chaudière-Appalaches regions where we operate, the agency is more than aware of the key role of people of immigrant backgrounds on our territory.

Last April, the unemployment rate was 1.7% in the Quebec City census metropolitan area, the lowest among the 47 main Canadian regions. Labour scarcity, as we can see, remains a very current challenge for entrepreneurs in the region. And yet fifteen years ago, in 2008, we could already see labour challenges starting to appear on the horizon, which prompted our organization to set up international recruitment initiatives and missions abroad. Over the years, talent attraction became one of the major mandates of our economic development agency.

ln absolute numbers, the National Capital Region welcomed 5,377 newcomers in 2022, compared to 2,340 in 2021. This represents a 130% increase during the last year. We can see the same trend on the south shore of Quebec City. The Chaudière-Appalaches region welcomed over 1,200 immigrants in 2022. Over the past year, 13 of the 17 administrative regions in the province of Quebec reached their highest net international migration rate since at least 2021.

This performance illustrates a clear trend towards the regionalization of immigration in Quebec. It can be explained in part by international talent recruitment activities in a context of labour scarcity. This indicates that the number of positions on the job market continues to grow, but also that the demand for workers is increasing.

This situation therefore invites the organization to strengthen and pursue its efforts related to the recruitment of international workers and students. However, employers and educational establishments, just like the candidates we accompany, face many challenges linked to their international mobility project. Today, we'd like to give you a few examples.

Firstly, the rate of visa refusals from French-speaking African countries is a major concern, particularly for educational establishments. Secondly, there are abnormally long processing times for work permits, in excess of five months, in Côte d'Ivoire, Senegal, Togo and Tunisia.

Abroad, we also note that Canadian embassies sometimes find themselves in competition with Quebec to help attract French-speaking immigrants outside Quebec. In addition, local legal support services, in the form of individual consultations for temporary workers and their families in vulnerable situations, are not easily accessible.

Also, our new arrivals are regularly faced with waiting lists for access to francization. Access to francization prior to arrival would benefit from greater development, especially in non-French-speaking countries, such as those in Latin America, where there is a high potential for francization.

Finally, the inadequate alignment of administrative procedures between the two levels of government, Quebec and Canada, creates a great deal of confusion, particularly during regulatory changes.

I believe that these issues should be raised as part of this present consultation and brought to your attention, in order to encourage an increase in French-speaking immigration to Canada and more specifically to our region, that of Quebec.

In closing, I would once again like to thank you for listening.

I would be delighted to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Chouinard.

I see the third witness hasn't arrived yet. We'll start the question period anyway.

Ladies from the Centre francophone du Grand Toronto and Québec International...

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'm listening, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

How will you divide the time when the third witness arrives? We receive the commissioner during the second hour. It's important for us to know whether we'll want to question the new witness or focus on the two witnesses we've just heard.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

For now, we're concentrating on those who are with us. As soon as the third witness arrives, we'll do his sound test and he'll join us.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You will therefore interrupt the questioning of the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes, as soon as we get confirmation that he's logged in.

Ladies, the first round of questions will be six minutes for each political party.

Mr. Joël Godin, our first vice-chair, will begin the first round.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses who are with us this morning, namely Ms. Chouinard and Ms. Ngenzebuhoro.

My first question is for Ms. Chouinard, who represents Québec International, an important organization for the economy of the Quebec City region. I'm a member of Parliament from the Quebec City region, and I think it's important that you're here. Thank you very much.

Ms. Chouinard, from an economic standpoint, francophone immigration helps our companies solve their labour shortage problems.

Could you give us a summary of the negative repercussions of the lack of access to francophone immigration?

[Marie-Josée Chouinard]

I don't have a figure on how many companies are affected by this. Recently, we surveyed a large proportion of the companies we support. Over 80% of them said that the shortage of personnel was an obstacle to their growth. In absolute numbers, I can't tell you how many.

Statistically, we can expect this labour shortage to have an impact on our economy and represent a brake on growth. This shortage may prevent some companies from meeting all demands. They tell us they have a full order book, are in a position to expand and have a host of business opportunities, but can't follow them up because of a lack of personnel.

The shortage has a real impact on the development of some companies, particularly in certain sectors.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Chouinard.

I believe the last witness has arrived.

I'll resume my question later, but before I do, I'd like to check a figure with you. Is it 80% or 90% of companies that have a labour problem?

[Marie-Josée Chouinard]

Eighty per cent told us they have this problem.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Godin. You only took 2 minutes 17 seconds. I've stopped the stopwatch.

We now welcome Mr. Laberge, from the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine.

Mr. Laberge, we're going to take a few moments for you to do a sound test. Please say a few sentences.

[Alain Laberge, Executive Director, Division scolaire franco-manitobaine]

Good morning everyone, I'm sorry I'm late.

Can I begin my statement?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

No. We need to do a sound test first to make sure the interpreters can hear you well. Tell us about the weather in your area.

[Alain Laberge]

There are a lot of forest fires. Yesterday, there was a serious accident, it's very distressing. The bus was carrying about fifteen elderly people on their way to a casino; they died. It's a real tragedy.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'll interrupt you, Mr. Laberge. Your sound test is good. We'll also do a sound test for Ms. Ashton, who has just joined us.

There seem to be some technical difficulties. We'll come back to you, Ms. Ashton, when it's your turn to ask questions.

Mr. Laberge, you have a five firm minutes to make your address. Then we'll move on to the question and comment rounds.

[Alain Laberge]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My name is Alain Laberge, and I'm executive director of the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine. This is the only French-language school division in Manitoba, and it has nearly 6,000 students.

I want to acknowledge that we are on the lands covered by treaties 1 to 5 and on the homelands of Louis Riel and the Red River Métis.

I would like to thank the Standing Committee on Official Languages for allowing me to speak this morning about the opportunities and challenges arising from increased immigration and settlement needs issues, especially at the school level.

There are five important factors, the first being recruitment. The education sector, like many others, is no stranger to the phenomenon of labour scarcity and shortages. In this respect, recruitment is the first important element in the revitalization of a French-speaking minority environment. We can no longer be reactive; we have to be proactive. We believe that the government should allow professional cultural exchanges; international school cultural exchanges; the recognition of high school and university diplomas and credits; embassies and a government that promote and accelerate the process of granting Canadian citizenship; scholarships for school internships; transferability of credits; work scholarships in northern rural regions and a premium for distance from major centres, given that the cost of living is much higher in northern environments.

It must also be taken into consideration that, although education is a provincial jurisdiction, it is necessary, if not imperative, that the immigration, education and health sectors work together to facilitate a positive transition.

The second factor is reception. This is probably one of the most important factors in the success of a smooth integration. This one shouldn't be limited to the workplace welcome. Newcomers need to tour the village, get to know the active offer of French-language services and establish ties with other francophones in the area. We need to expand the francophone space.

The reception service offered is too often limited to a few weeks. In reality, a new family needs support and guidance in all areas of life in Manitoba or elsewhere in Canada. They need to apply for a health insurance card, find a family doctor and dentist, apply for a driver's licence, apply for a social insurance card and a library card, for example. You have to be able to do all this work in less than six months to guarantee a very successful reception.

The third factor is integration. To ensure successful integration, there is an obligation to support new arrivals. Like reception, integration takes time, depending on the family, location, community and many other factors. For children, it starts with the school, which sets up structures to verify all learning outcomes in relation to the Manitoba program. For parents, it means ensuring that they have access to federal and provincial services in the language of their choice.

The fourth factor is the language barrier. With the exception of New Brunswick, which is, in principle, a designated bilingual province, which I somewhat doubt, that said without irony, many French-speaking newcomers are under the impression that Canada is a bilingual country. They are therefore bitterly disappointed when they realize that they have little chance of living in French in Manitoba or anywhere else in Canada except Quebec. This is a real problem if we say that Canada is a country that promotes both languages. We lose many workers every year, simply because the majority of the Canadian population is unilingual English.

Once we've welcomed newcomers, we need to retain them. So the fifth factor is retention. One of the challenges facing school divisions in minority and rural areas is that, after a few years, people move to urban areas. So they're just passing through these small communities.

What can we do to improve the situation? We need to ensure that Canada works in partnership with its embassies to encourage economic immigration; that all our regions offer support services for families; that the federal government supports the provinces in funding community schools; that family members can quickly obtain permanent resident status; that Canada recognizes diplomas earned in foreign countries; that school divisions obtain funding to support newcomers and ensure they stay in rural areas; that these families can access a personal health care system as well as a home ownership plan.

It's important to adequately fund minority communities in order to counter assimilation. Economically and educationally, immigration would breathe new life into our economy while giving a new face to intercultural pedagogy.

I'd like to thank the Standing Committee on Official Languages once again for allowing the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine to provide some food for thought.

I am ready to answer any questions committee members may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Laberge. I know it's a little early for you in Manitoba. The same goes for Ms. Ashton, as well as Mr. Dalton, who is in Vancouver.

We'll resume the round of questions.

Mr. Godin, you have 3 minutes and 42 seconds left. You have the floor for more than three minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Chouinard, I'm continuing my discussion with you. You said earlier that, in the Quebec City region, 80% of the companies supported by Québec International are experiencing labour problems. You also mentioned that they may be missing the boat when it comes to economic development, as this leaves the field open to other competitors. We know that when it comes to the economy, when we leave room for our competitors, it's hard to take it back later.

Are you holding discussions with representatives from other regions? Is the situation similar elsewhere in Quebec? In fact, you probably also have discussions with people in charge of other organizations like yours in Canada.

[Marie-Josée Chouinard]

In reality, this need for personnel is indeed widespread throughout Quebec. What's more, many of our counterparts in other economic development agencies in Quebec look to us to find out how we attract talent. We were pioneers when we sent out our first recruitment missions 15 years ago. We developed a methodology for accompanying companies. Seeing all the interest throughout Quebec in our ways of doing things—