Evidence of meeting #84 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was impact.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much for your testimony, Mr. Normand.
Do you know what percentage of the students enrolled at francophone institutions outside Quebec are international students?
9:40 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
We conducted a study before the pandemic, and we know that there has been some growth since the health measures were lifted.
Before the pandemic, we estimated that there were approximately 5,000 students at all levels in our institutional network. That's not 5,000 new students in our network every year, but 5,000 students who were studying there. We now assume that the number ranges between 6,000 and 7,000.
We know that, in September 2022, approximately 5,000 study permits were issued for institutions in the Canadian francophonie out of approximately 500,000 study permits issued across Canada. That represents approximately 1% to 2% of study permits issued.
The actual number is somewhat unclear because you have to take into account the fact that students won't necessarily go to classes in September just because they have a study permit.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB
I see.
I'd like to go back to the francophone immigration policy that Mr. Miller announced on January 22 last.
If the policy remains as it was when it was announced, do you think francophone colleges and universities will suffer negative consequences such as reduced operations?
Could that possibly jeopardize the survival of those institutions?
9:40 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
Once the provinces have determined how to distribute the study permits and the figures have been confirmed, we can say that the policy's introduction could result in a significant decline in the number of international students.
There could be a significant revenue loss for all our institutions, mainly those located in the provinces where the established cap results in specific consequences. I'm thinking here of Ontario, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and British Columbia. Those are the provinces that Mr. Miller mentioned in his announcement.
However, there's no guarantee that the provinces where the number of study permits hasn't reached the established cap will continue issuing to francophone institutions a number of study permits equal to the number of permits currently issued to them.
Until we know what the provinces are planning to do about the allocation of study permits, we won't know what that means from a revenue standpoint for the institutions even in the provinces where the cap allows some leeway.
That's why we're saying there's a chance that all our institutions could suffer revenue losses in the very short term.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB
Earlier you said that this news about the measures Canada has taken regarding international students was quickly spreading abroad.
Have you heard from your organization or the institutions you work with that people abroad, upon hearing the news, have reconsidered their plans to come and study in Canada or to apply for study permits?
9:45 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
It's very anecdotal, but yesterday we heard that people were changing their plans to come and study at eight Canadian francophone institutions and that they instead intended to apply for study permits in Quebec because they felt they had a better chance of getting one.
The announcement was made barely a week ago, but the message is already spreading through the international networks. You should never underestimate the speed at which these things circulate. I'll give you an example.
When the Quebec government announced a cut to tuition fees for international students who were going to study specific disciplines in the regions, within 48 hours, recruiters from our institutions on the ground in Africa were being asked, "Why would I study in Moncton if I can get a scholarship to study in Quebec?" So we assume that the news that was announced last week is already out there.
In addition, if someone applies for a study permit on January 23, 24 or 25, that application won't be processed because it isn't accompanied by an attestation letter from the province. None of the provinces has been able to roll out in a few days the new system that IRCC is asking them to create.
That's why we're telling you that there's currently a de facto moratorium on the processing of study permits. Our partners at Universities Canada and Colleges and Institutes Canada sent a letter to Mr. Miller this week criticizing that moratorium-like state and asking him to allow continuing processing of study permits.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB
Thank you.
We're talking about the decline of French and ways to guarantee its survival in our communities outside Quebec.
As the representative of the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne, do you think these measures will undermine both the institutions and our ability to resolve the labour shortages in our communities?
Do you think that the issue goes beyond what we're discussing today and that the policy could threaten the survival of French outside Quebec?
9:45 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
Yes, I absolutely think that. We'll come back to it later.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you very much.
We will now go to the next round of questions.
Go ahead, Mr. Dalton.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you very much for your testimony, Mr. Normand.
Do you think the government just ad-libbed that announcement?
9:45 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
I obviously wasn't in the IRCC offices or that of Mr. Miller during the discussions and so can't determine whether he did. What we know, however, is that a review of the policies and measures pertaining to the international student program has been in the pipeline since last summer.
Together with our partners in the post-secondary education sector, we actively participate in many consultations that IRCC conducts on various measures. The aim is to improve the integrity of the international student program and to maintain Canada's reputation as a premier destination.
That's why measures have been taken in recent months, such as the introduction of a new system for verifying letters of acceptance prepared by post-secondary educational institutions and the development of a framework for trusted institutions to expedite the processing of study permits where institutions are considered good actors. The minimum necessary income was recently increased for people wishing to enter Canada and study at an institution here.
Many things were already happening, and some measures are now being developed, while others are being rolled out. However, we haven't been able to gauge the impact of those measures. We had heard that a cap might be introduced, but we didn't know what it actually might be or the scope it might take. If the cap had been set for September 2023, the situation would have been different, but that wasn't the case. The result is a cap and a 35% reduction.
I admit we had neither heard nor anticipated that before the announcement last Monday.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
It seems to have caused some chaos and disarray in the institutions, which are concerned about what's happening and are wondering what they're going to do.
You mentioned funding of $90 million. Did I understand you correctly? Could you tell us more about that?
How much is the federal government currently granting the institutions?
9:50 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
I was alluding to a promise that was made in the Liberal Party's platform in 2021 that there would be a permanent support fund of $80 million a year for the post-secondary education sector. We expected it to make good on that promise in the 2022 budget, but that didn't happen. We expected it to appear in the action plan for official languages 2023-2028, and provision is made in the action plan for a support fund of $121 million over four years, but we're now at $30 million rather than $80 million, and that's temporary rather than permanent.
Other envelopes are also provided to support post-secondary education through Canadian Heritage, such as the budget for an official languages in education program and those designed to support education infrastructure and other announced projects. However, the permanent support fund falls short of what was promised.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Would you please tell us a little about the inflation problem that post-secondary educational institutions are encountering?
9:50 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
I believe inflation is everywhere. It affects our wallets as much as those of the post-secondary educational institutions, which have to take inflation into consideration in planning their budgets from year to year. I must say it's been significant in recent years, but it's levelling off now.
However, as inflation rose, some provinces, for example, froze tuition fees at post-secondary educational institutions. So sometimes measures limit the ability of institutions to generate new revenue to deal with inflation.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
The Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, the FCFA, has proposed that the francophone immigration target be increased.
If I understood you correctly, you said that approximately 2% of students currently at your institutions are foreign students.
Is that correct?
9:50 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
I'm going to correct you there. Actually, 2% of the total number of study permits issued in Canada are issued to francophone institutions. Of the 500,000 international students in Canada, 5,000 are in our institutional network, which represents 1% to 2% of the total clientele. On average, approximately 14% of the clientele of our institutions is foreign students.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
How has that number changed in the past 10 years?
9:50 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
There has been some relative growth, not the same growth—
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Pardon me, Mr. Normand.
That's an excellent question, but we will have to come back to it later because time is up.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
February 1st, 2024 / 9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Mr. Dalton started talking about numbers and I love numbers.
Mr. Normand, you said that before the pandemic nearly 5,000 international students were attending the colleges and universities that you represent.
Is that correct?
9:50 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
Yes, that's correct.
In 2018-2019, according to the latest figures we have, we had approximately 5,000 at our 22 institutions.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
I see.
We understand why the minister has reacted in the past few weeks. In Ontario alone, there were approximately 62,000 study permits for the entire college system in 2019, and that number increased to approximately 142,000 in 2022. That's more than double; it's nearly triple that number.
Are your members seeing the same increase? Do you still have roughly 5,000 international students? Has the number increased to 6,000 or 7,000 students, or even more?