Official Languages Committee on April 18th, 2024

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So we need to invest more to be able to offer more programs.

[Gillian Anderson]

Exactly.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Thériault, in your opening remarks, you mentioned a new scholarship program that's been in place for a few years. You said that certain students had access to this program, while others did not. Can you explain this situation to us?

[Simon Thériault]

Currently, the scholarships are for students with French as a second language who are studying in French. In other words, students who attended French immersion schools or programs. However, the scholarship program is not intended for students who completed their high school education in a French school and whose mother tongue is French.

What we are requesting is a scholarship program that would give young francophones attending French schools access to scholarships to further their studies at a French-language post-secondary institution.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So you're saying that young people who are in French immersion have access to this program, but that young francophones who want to continue their studies in French—students we don't want to lose to the English-language system—do not have access to the scholarships offered under this new government program.

In what year was this program created?

[Simon Thériault]

The program was included in the former Action Plan for Official Languages, the 2018–2023 plan.

We're asking for a new scholarship program that would allow young francophones to pursue their post-secondary studies in French, since they face the same challenges.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

As far as you know, that program is not part of the 2023–2028 Action Plan for Official Languages.

[Simon Thériault]

That's right.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Thériault, you suggested increasing scholarships or making them more accessible to young people. If I remember correctly, you also mentioned that study programs weren't necessarily accessible or that there weren't enough of them, resulting in the exodus of young people. They have to leave their place of birth or their province, which increases their costs.

We are the legislators. We're here to find the most effective ways. As you know, money doesn't grow on trees. If we had to choose, would we be better off investing in scholarships for youth or in post-secondary institutions to make French-language programs more accessible and diverse?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's an excellent question, Mr. Godin, but your six minutes are up. We can come back to it later.

It's now the Liberals' turn. Mr. Samson has the floor for six minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I'd like to thank my CNPF colleagues for appearing today. I also thank Mr. Thériault.

Ms. Anderson and Mr. Racine, I must say that the CNPF has always been very close to my heart. So I am delighted to see you here. You mentioned post-secondary education, and I recognize its importance, but early childhood is of great concern to me, too. Your organization has key early childhood goals as well. The role you've played for a long time has helped set French-language schools on the path to success.

My questions will be very brief.

How will the changes made through Bill C‑35 help your association?

[Gillian Anderson]

It's sure to help with student retention in our schools. It will encourage parents to enrol them in our programs in the first place, because there will be far more choices, opportunities and funding for early childhood. These spaces didn't exist in the past. So it's a major improvement for the community. It's part of the continuum.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Ms. Anderson, I'd like to ask you some pointed questions.

If parents don't have access to day care in a French school for their child, do you think they will choose the French school or will they more likely choose an English school?

[Gillian Anderson]

They will surely choose an English school.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Do you think the lack of school-based day care spots will lead to more assimilation?

[Gillian Anderson]

Yes, definitely. I couldn't agree more.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

So we're acknowledging that Bill C‑35 will improve the situation.

Budget 2024 mentions early childhood. Can you tell us how that will help you?

[Gillian Anderson]

That will surely create more spaces for parents who want to enrol their children in day care, preschool or early childhood services in French. It's the beginning of the continuum. As they say, it's the base of the pyramid. You have to build a solid base if you want it to go all the way to the top. We're working on each step of that continuum.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

When I was superintendent of a school board in Nova Scotia, we nearly doubled our student population within 10 years by establishing a junior kindergarten program from age 4. Parents from exogamous families were hesitant to enrol their children in French-language schools because they felt their children didn't speak French well enough. Thanks to the creation of the JK program for four-year-olds, which is not officially a school program, links between parents and the school were forged, and parents are now less reticent about enrolling their children there.

Are you seeing this elsewhere in the country?

[Jean-Luc Racine, Executive Director, Commission nationale des parents francophones]

Yes. We're even hearing from parents who, even though they're both francophone, are forced to enrol their children in English-language daycares. We've seen some concrete cases in Nova Scotia and Alberta, for example. Afterwards, they decide to enrol their children in English-language schools, because they're afraid their children won't be comfortable enough in French to succeed.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

So this is a problem, and we must find a solution.

You have a solution to propose. Your hard work is allowing this very important issue to move forward.

Mr. Thériault, I haven't forgotten you. You're from New Brunswick, aren't you?

[Simon Thériault]

Yes, that's right.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Wonderful, that's right next to my province. As you well know, I'm from Nova Scotia. New Brunswick and Nova Scotia have worked together a lot on this issue.

You mentioned that Canada now has 760 French-language schools outside Quebec. You know your files well, and that's impressive. When I was in school, there were no French-language schools here. Today, children have access to French-language schools across Canada. As a result, there are far more students in French-language schools. So why aren't we seeing more students from French schools in French universities and post-secondary institutions?

[Simon Thériault]

That's a very good question. You're asking questions about early childhood and you're pinpointing the right area. The important thing is to recruit young people at the beginning of the continuum, from early childhood, so that they then go to school in French and continue on to high school in French. It's important to keep them in our institutions to ensure that they go on to attend French-language post-secondary institutions. If we lose them at the end of their compulsory schooling, it's a missed opportunity.

Furthermore, many young people decide to pursue their studies in English because they experience language insecurity, a common phenomenon in young people, or because programs are simply not offered in French. French-language post-secondary institutions may also be far from their homes. There are many reasons why young people choose an English-language post-secondary institution over a French-language one, but—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Mr. Thériault, we could write a whole chapter on the reasons behind such a choice. I know you know the subject very well and I thank you for sharing your experience with us.

I'd like to come back to the suggestion you made to my colleague earlier, namely to provide scholarships encouraging students to choose French-language universities or post-secondary institutions.

In Nova Scotia, for example, it's true that it's not easy to study in French for someone who lives on Isle Madame, the beautiful little island I come from, which is located on the edge of Cape Breton. It's a seven-hour drive to the province's only French-language university. On the other hand, you can choose to attend one of the 15 English-language universities that are closer by. It's discouraging. In my case, I had to study in New Brunswick, a four-hour drive away. It was an easy choice between a four-hour drive and a seven-hour drive.

Can you tell me about that? Have young people raised the issue with ministers? Have you had any discussions? Is this an issue you think should be pursued all the way?