Official Languages Committee on April 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, thank you very much.

Thank you, Ms. Bouffard.

We can come back to this question later.

For the second of questions we go to the Liberal Party and Annie Koutrakis.

You have the floor for six minutes, Annie.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to all the witnesses for joining us today.

I'll start with Dr. O'Donnell.

Thank you for being here.

Section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not guarantee the right to post-secondary education in a minority language.

To your knowledge, are there any guarantees in provincial and territorial legislation for post-secondary education in the minority language?

[Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell]

There are none that I know of.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you for that.

The new Official Languages Act includes provisions to enhance accountability for transfer payments from the Government of Canada to the provinces and territories.

Have those provisions improved practices at both levels of government, to your knowledge?

[Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell]

My apologies, but I am not here to reflect on the entire university sector. I really hope that the university presidents representing English-language universities in Quebec get the chance to present this type of information to your committee.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

If you had to provide us with one solid recommendation for our study, from your perspective, what would that look like?

[Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell]

We would like to see the research ecosystem—the networks of universities, colleges, professors, students and others who do research on Quebec's official language minority communities—receive steady, ongoing support so that we can answer the kinds of questions that are being asked today, which we're unable to answer due to funding that is not continuous and that is hard for us to depend on from year to year.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Bouffard, federal funding is important, but the provinces must also get involved. You already mentioned that in your comments.

Does the province provide you with less funding than institutions serving the linguistic majority receive?

Do you know the proportions? What's the gap between the two?

[Sophie Bouffard]

We'd have to look at our financial statements and compare them institution by institution.

We've noticed that, in our case, provincial funding makes up just shy of 60% of our budget. For universities in urban areas, it's around 50%.

In rural areas, in the case of Brandon University, for example, the percentage is higher.

The most important thing is getting stable minimum funding. We need to provide a basic set of services. There's a basic cost, plus the rest.

It's hard to make comparisons, because we have other challenges. We need to provide additional services, and we need to adapt them.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Dr. O'Donnell.

In your opinion, if there were one recommendation to make and it turned out to be the most important one for our study, what would that look like?

[Sophie Bouffard]

I talked about recurring funding. We would need something stable to continue to build the system and these post-secondary institutions. That's what we need.

I know you're looking into accountability. That's important as well. If I may say so, multiple layers of discussions must take place between the institutions, the province and the federal government. Also, all kinds of dynamics come into play.

I could provide more information if you wish.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Like everyone here, like my colleagues, I know it all starts with funding, but I think a lot of other issues pose challenges.

What other challenges could the federal government help with to make things better?

[Sophie Bouffard]

It still comes down to funding. You heard the recommendation about scholarships for students from our French-language schools in the Franco-Manitoban School Division.

We also need to be able to offer programs. Some of our young people who want to study engineering, medicine or law choose to study in English at another institutions.

I think there are ways to work in a network. The francophonie has seen some great successes, especially the Consortium national de formation en santé.

There are solutions and different ways of doing things. We're ready to find solutions. We can do it.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Bouffard.

Dr. O'Donnell or Mr. Donovan, do you want to add any comments?

[Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell]

Yes. I would like to address a general perception.

One of the issues that Patrick and I face as historians working on the topic of English-speaking Quebec is that, unfortunately, there's a prevalent and much outdated perspective that English-speaking Quebec is a privileged group that doesn't need support. In fact, although we don't worry about the vitality of our language, we have grave concerns about the vitality of our communities. As I mentioned, poverty, unemployment and out-migration, which affect our continuum of English-language education, are grave concerns.

When we ask for support for research on our OLMC, it's a very grounded request based on the realities that come to our attention every day at our job.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thanks, Ms. O'Donnell.

I now turn over the floor to the Bloc Québécois, more specifically to the second vice-chair of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the representatives of the Quebec English-Speaking Communities Research Network.

Do you agree that, in the past, up until the 1960s, francophones were victims of economic discrimination?

[Patrick Donovan]

Yes, we absolutely agree.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Also, do you agree that English-language institutions were substantially overfunded?

[Patrick Donovan]

I don't know if they were overfunded, but they did have a bigger budget at one time.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In the early 1960s—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

One moment, Mr. Beaulieu. I'll stop the clock.

Mr. Donovan, can you raise your mike to make it easier for the interpreters?

With that, I'll restart the clock.

Mr. Beaulieu, you may continue.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In the early 1960s, English-language universities received 28.5% of the funding to Quebec universities.

In 1994-95, the federal government allocated 36.7% of funding to English-language universities in Quebec.

According to the latest data on research funding, 35% to 40% of funding is now going to English-language universities in Quebec.

Don't you think that's a little outrageous?

[Patrick Donovan]

No, I don't think it's outrageous. In any event, I don't see why you're talking about the 1960s, since it's now 2024.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

My question was about the funding in 2017. I believe those are the most recent figures, but the experts who will be testifying can confirm that.

English-language universities receive four times more funding, perhaps even more, than the demographic weight of anglophones would warrant. In your opinion, that's not enough and there should be more.

Is that right?