Evidence of meeting #32 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I want the name of the actual individual who designed that proposal. Who is that person?
4:20 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions, Public Works and Government Services Canada
There would have been an interdepartmental team that was part—
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions, Public Works and Government Services Canada
It would have been an individual who works for me.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Mr. Chair, I would want to make sure that at future meetings that individual is here. Is he here today?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
It looks like a crowded table, but if he wants to come up, I wouldn't mind his being there.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Who was the person who scored the bids that came in?
4:20 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions, Public Works and Government Services Canada
That was Mr. Goodfellow.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
So that's the same person--the person who designs and the person who scores.
4:20 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions, Public Works and Government Services Canada
No, I need to correct that, Mr. Chair.
The process of designing the RFP and the evaluation criteria is very much a team effort. You need to understand that those evaluation criteria are framed based on the program requirements.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
That's fine.
If I understand it correctly, the property management services formed a part of the request for proposal. I think the guy who would have been doing the scoring on the bids would have been assigning a score on that point.
Is that correct, Mr. Goodfellow? Is that a correct assumption on my part?
4:20 p.m.
A voice
No.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I'm asking him. He's the guy who did it, not you down there, legal counsel. I'll ask you if I need your help.
4:25 p.m.
Richard Goodfellow Manager, Project Delivery Services Division, Public Works and Government Services Canada
Mr. Chairman, property management services was not part of the technical evaluation, it was part of the financial evaluation. So there was no--
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Do you know whether that item would have been in the scoring process or not?
4:25 p.m.
Manager, Project Delivery Services Division, Public Works and Government Services Canada
It was not in—
4:25 p.m.
Manager, Project Delivery Services Division, Public Works and Government Services Canada
No, it was not in the technical scoring. It was used to calculate the financial cost.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Madam Fraser has rightly pointed out that one of the keys here, rule number one, is that the tendering process must adhere to principles of fairness. As Mr. Laforest points out, in the request for proposals it was indicated that 60% of the 7,200 deals here would use property management services, but the actual volume wasn't anywhere close to 60%; it was less than 1%. If it had been any smaller you would have needed a microscope to see the damn thing.
When bidders asked for more information on that they got stonewalled, and they were told that the 60% was basically in the ball park. If I understand this correctly, when it comes to scoring on this system, that's going to be part of the scorecard. And this is a very tight, competitive process.
I'm going to say that if Mr. Marshall goes to see his surgeon this weekend, and the surgeon performs an operation on him and there is that kind of discrepancy in the medical information that is available to Mr. Marshall, we should all get down on our hands and knees and pray for Mr. Marshall, because I think we're going to have problems here.
Madam Fraser, do you agree with me that the discrepancy is substantial here?
4:25 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Obviously we agree with that, because we wouldn't have qualified the process as not being fair and equitable.
I think the representatives of Public Works are trying to say the consequence didn't affect the technical component of the bid, which was 75%. But one can presume, and it's only a hypothesis, that it would have affected the financial aspect, which again could have affected the ratings for the two bids.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Mr. Goodfellow, you designed this proposal. How can you possibly explain to any reasonable person in Canada such a huge discrepancy? I just find this whole thing absolutely amazing and astonishing, that any competent public servant could design a proposal like that with such a massive difference in information, and then on top of it all told bidders who would have been bidding on this that the information was accurate, or told them to basically go away, that you can't really help them out.
Can you please clarify this for the benefit of the people on this committee? I'm absolutely clueless on how this could have occurred.
