No, I was not aware.
Evidence of meeting #66 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #66 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Disability Program & Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No, I was not aware.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
You were not?
I have here an internal memo written by Mr. Bernie Corrigan and addressed to his supervisor, Pierre Lavoie, who identified you as a person of interest in an investigation:
The following individuals are the subject of the part IV investigation....
4:15 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Disability Program & Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I'm sorry, I just missed the last part of your sentence there.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
In this internal memo, of which I have a copy, Mr. Corrigan informs Mr. Lavoie that you were one among those under investigation by the Ottawa Police Service.
Do you have any idea why you would be under investigation? Were you asked questions about the matter?
4:15 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Disability Program & Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I don't recognize those names at all.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Please I understand that I will table this internal memo.
It is fairly surprising that you were not aware that you were being investigated with regard to your dealings and your work, when someone passed along your name in that context.
4:15 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Disability Program & Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I'm sorry, I don't have that document in front of me, but if you're referring to a code of conduct.... Is that what you're referring to? Is that correct?
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Yes. In fact, it refers to Part IV which deals with investigations. I presume it refers to a code of conduct.
4:15 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Disability Program & Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes, I'm sorry.
I didn't recognize the names.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Were you penalized when all of this happened? Did you receive a reprimand, a disciplinary notice or anything similar?
4:15 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Disability Program & Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No, they weren't.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
We learned that it was not possible to impose disciplinary measures against anyone under investigation if more than a year had elapsed.
Do you think that is what happened in your case?
4:15 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Disability Program & Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I don't know what the result of the investigation was.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Fine, perfect.
I now have a couple of questions about Great-West Life.
Mr. Foley, despite what you said earlier, which is that Great-West Life was just doing some type of administrative work, you were not able to provide the computer services required by the RCMP.
It is surprising that a company as well known as Great-West Life was not able to provide these services, but I understand that the technological challenges sometimes exceed the capacities of an organization.
Nevertheless, you were the intermediary between the RCMP and Morneau Sobeco, and you did not take into account the fact that there was no bidding process and that the contract was awarded without the legal opinion and audit required.
How was it that a company like Great-West Life became embroiled in this situation and without seeking legal audit? I would like you to explain to us how this happened because I personally have a lot of difficulty understanding it.
4:15 p.m.
Great-West Life Assurance Company
As best I understand you, you've covered quite a lot of the specturm here. Great-West Life began working on the insurance administration outsourcing, and most of the tasks that we assumed were the ones required were things that we could do. As the project unfolded, some of the requirements that were coming to light were newer things that the RCMP and the compensation people decided they wanted. They were new technology things that involved Internet access for members to enrol online--and remember, we're going back six or seven years, and these were leading-edge things.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
In that regard, Mr. Foley, I can understand the process and I can also understand that it was difficult for you to do the job that was requested of you and to provide those services. However, I am asking you why you agreed to be the intermediary between the RCMP and Morneau Sobeco, which was another company.
Was Great-West Life paid for that? How much? I am referring in particular to the fact that Morneau Sobeco was awarded a contract without submitting a bid. That's not normal.
4:20 p.m.
Great-West Life Assurance Company
Great-West Life informed the RCMP that we couldn't do the work going forward, and we wanted to assist the RCMP, but we did not select Morneau Sobeco. We were not involved in that process, and we worked with Morneau Sobeco to arrive at a contract after they were selected. We made no money. In fact, we expended--
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Did you make sure that the contract between the RCMP and Morneau Sobeco was in accordance with Treasury Board policies and Public Works and Government Services Canada policies? Did you make sure of this before agreeing to the role of intermediary?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Great-West Life Assurance Company
If I understand the question correctly, we did not deal with PWGSC. We provided the services. We had the contract with Morneau Sobeco. It's a contract between Great-West Life and Morneau Sobeco on behalf of the RCMP.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order.
The witness has not answered my question, which is basically whether he made sure that the contract between the RCMP and Morneau Sobeco was in accordance with Treasury Board policies?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick
We'll let Mr. Foley or the officials answer, but it is a straightforward question, so if we would get an answer--
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
There was no contract, Mr. Chair. It's not an accurate question.