Public Accounts Committee on June 17th, 2008

[MGen Daniel Benjamin]

It's a huge system.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Sweet.

Mr. Christopherson, you have seven minutes.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

Thank you all for your attention today.

I will begin with congratulations, General. Now we'll get to work on your name, Natynczyk. I've got a longer name than you, so I think you'll understand you have great sympathy from me in terms of how it gets pronounced.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Soon we'll all be able to pronounce it.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes.

We all wish you the best of luck, really, especially in the care of our soldiers. And let me just say that if my approach to this today seems a little uncharacteristic, it's because I have a great deal of sympathy. Prior to entering public life--quite a while ago now--I spent ten years punching a clock, working in a parts department. So nobody knows more about back orders and the wrong part and things that don't fit and why it happens than I do. It's been quite a few years, and there is a lot of technology, but that's not always a big help. So you're going to hear a lot more sympathetic a questioner than normal here, because I do have a great deal of sympathy for how difficult this is.

That being said, however, the report, in paragraph 2.21, shows us that 50% of all the equipment and supplies that are ordered don't make it on time. That speaks to planning as much as it does to the actual delivery on the ground. Is that improving? Why is that number so high?

We've been out there for quite a while now. It would seem to me we'd be a little closer to knowing when things could really happen, given all the difficulties you have. So can you give us a little explanation of why the figure is 50%, and what you're doing to lower that, please?

[MGen Daniel Benjamin]

Yes. It's a great question. In fact, I can come back to another question we had earlier on the systemic approach to the problem and the improvements that we've been making. When the OAG went in theatre, we were in the process of changing our priority code system from twelve codes to four. What happened, from a full DND and Canadian Forces perspective, was that people had to change their approach. Our depots were being swamped with high-priority demands, the top demand, when in fact they were not demands required for theatre. We have disciplined the process, and now priority code one is for operations.

Our extremely urgent demands, to be brought to the theatre, went from 47% to 5% or 6%. Then I do the tracking. How fast do we deliver it? Right now, on average, we do it in 11 to 21 days, depending on the type of aircraft. It's a huge improvement.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Very good.

[LGen Walter Natynczyk]

This is a credit to ADM Materiel, Mr. Dan Ross, with the procurement side, in getting those spare pieces. Also, with regard to Canadian Operational Support Command and how they have used the C-17s, contracting the ships, and ensuring that the high priority is flown in, those pieces, those commodities that we have a month or two before getting into theatre are in a container aboard ship. So we're actually getting best value for the transit costs.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I also noted that there are different supply chains for medical equipment. A common-sense approach would say that's because it's life-saving and you can't afford the delays, but I'm wondering how that system would work. I'm going to make an assumption that it works more efficiently than the other and that's why there's a separate one. You don't want glitches. But what would the differences be between what you do with medical supplies and how the regular system would handle them? I would assume your way is more effective. Just enlighten me on that, please.

[MGen Daniel Benjamin]

We have two supply chains that work in parallel. This is a legacy issue. With the creation of my command, the medical in support of operation is also part of my command, and we work hand-in-hand. The problems they were facing in Afghanistan, in the role three and having the proper medical supplies, we have resolved through proper SOAs and proper stock discipline. So even though it works in parallel, it's still very much integrated into the overall system. We track the other as well.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

So you've adopted some of the techniques you used there.

[MGen Daniel Benjamin]

Yes, we have paid special attention to stock levels and having enough supplies for 60 to 90 days, so that we don't run out in a critical time at the role three hospital in Kandahar.

[LGen Walter Natynczyk]

Just before this audit, in the fall of 2005, we created General Benjamin's headquarters. The Canadian Operational Support Command brings together logistics, medical, engineering, and signals under one umbrella to ensure that it's all synchronized. And what we're seeing now is the effect of that.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'd like to ask you a real layperson's question about supplies. How does it work if there is something incredibly urgent? If you just found out you need blood or key components of a piece of equipment, it could very well be, in your business, life and death. Do you have a special means? Is there something available where you or somebody can get on the phone and just say, “Grab it. Make it happen. I want it there, I want it there within x period of time, and don't tell me procedures”? Does that exist, or is that TV?

[LGen Walter Natynczyk]

I call Dan Benjamin.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay.

[MGen Daniel Benjamin]

Yes, the material priority code one for operations is the one. But I guess you could have sub-priorities within that, if you absolutely need it, like within three days. We'd take the phone and tell them to make sure of this and we'd track it through the whole system. And I have the ability to track it.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm just curious. Let me push you one more step. How would that work? Do you have special aircraft ready? Would you divert aircraft if that was needed? Would you send personnel? If it's life and death, there are no procedures that are going to get in the way; this is just going to happen. How would that work?

[MGen Daniel Benjamin]

We have a support pipeline that goes from Canada to that theatre on a regular basis. We have a Canadian Airbus from the air force; we have an IL-76 every week leaving from Trenton; we have our C-17 twice a week; in the future, once we have all of them, we'll have the C-17 once a week; and right now I have three to four Antanovs per month that are also put in the pipeline.

This pipeline goes back and forth, and we optimize what we put in the pipeline through that process, making sure that people in theatre have the right kit at the right moment.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Very good.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you very much, Mr. Christopherson.

Mr. Hubbard, for seven minutes.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I think we are comforted by what we hear. Sometimes you read about the loss of supplies, but I guess the other case is you have a surplus of supplies.

I want to ask about bar coding. Why is that a problem? Most little stores in Canada have bar code systems. Why would a big organization like DND not have a bar code system in place? It seemed to be a problem when you mentioned bar codes.

[MGen Daniel Benjamin]

Yes, we do have bar coding in Canada. My depots in both Montreal and Edmonton are using bar coding. The ADM for materiel was in the process of procuring the capability for all of the warehouses within Canada, and obviously we wanted it in operation. But we realized that we must have it in operation as soon as possible, and I really wanted to have this capability in that theatre.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

When would you expect that? The Auditor General made a report that's been around for some time. When would you expect to have this in the theatre?

[Robert Fonberg]

I believe the action plan that we tabled talks about rolling this out for piloting before the end of July of this year, and having the capability operational in theatre before the end of this year.