Evidence of meeting #46 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cida.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Thank you.
Can you explain how the accountability and monitoring guidelines clarify accountabilities and tracking methodology?
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian International Development Agency
Sorry, could you repeat that?
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Yes. How do the accountability and monitoring guidelines clarify accountabilities and tracking methodology?
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian International Development Agency
I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure. I mean, it's—
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
The accountability and monitoring guidelines. Can you explain how those are effective?
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian International Development Agency
How are they effective? Well, they are basically built into our country's strategy. If we know clearly what results and what aid effectiveness principles we're trying to achieve, we have embedded those into the strategies we're developing in our partner countries. We have gone further and put them in place in terms of the performance contracts we have with our senior managers. We expect them to be doing that as well.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian International Development Agency
Monitoring is done on an ongoing basis, and we report on an annual basis against the principles and targets we set out for ourselves.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Finally, how will you communicate the elements of the plan to Canadians?
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian International Development Agency
We will do so on our website, sir.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you, Mr. Saxton.
Ms. Biggs, I have an issue I want to bring up before we go to the second round.
I've gone over the audit, and, as has been pointed out, there are a number of issues. Of course that was during the period of the audit, and a lot of the testimony you have given is post-audit. You're taking action and you've agreed with all the recommendations set out in the performance report.
I've also read the departmental performance report for the period 2008-09. A lot of the issues that were identified in the report from the Auditor General were not contained in your audit report: the challenges the agency was facing, some of the difficulties that are clearly identified. You, as the accounting officer, signed a certificate saying that the performance report was to be balanced and reflected that... This is what Parliament is looking for. It is looking for a document that clearly states what the department has done but also the challenges and risks that the agency faces.
Do you have any comment on the contents of this performance report and any explanation why, in my view, it doesn't address the issues set out in the report of the Auditor General?
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian International Development Agency
The departmental performance report reports back on the previous report on plans and priorities, so there's a bit of a lag there. I think the principles around aid effectiveness have been reported consistently through the departmental performance report. I think you will see changes in the next DPR.
One thing, and I don't have it in front of me, sir, that I think we may not have gotten into in the DPR are some of the administrative issues the Auditor General has pointed out in terms of some of the complexities and the lack of timeliness in our administrative processes, so that is probably a fair comment. I'd have to go back and look.
I certainly was very comfortable with the DPR when I signed it. I think you'll see the new DPR will reflect the priorities, the thematics, and the action plan we're laying out for you here today.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
In the second round... Well, three minutes, and we'll go as long as we can, which may not be too long.
Mr. Lee.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Derek Lee Liberal Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
One of the items outlined in the Auditor General's report, Ms. Biggs, is the turnover of staff. It was pretty recognizable statistically. I'm curious. Why? Maybe CIDA doesn't know the reason. This has come up with other ministries, and often the reason isn't known. All they know is there's a huge turnover, people zipping around, taking promotions, going to the private sector, coming back, finding jobs for their friends--it just goes on and on--people getting raises, demotions. Do you know why CIDA went through such a merry-go-round of staff turnover?
My colleague was just pointing out, maybe they were just following the example of their ministers over the last number of years, as ministers turned over.
It's okay. I just wanted to make that comment. Mr. Saxton invited that comment. Anyway, your response, please.
5:10 p.m.
President, Canadian International Development Agency
I can't comment on the reasons for the turnover that go back to 2002. Some turnover is necessary, and you would expect it. In CIDA, many people take other assignments with other development agencies. The policy branches throughout government tend to have people who bring policy skills from other departments, and you tend to see more.... That figure does not concern me, because you need to bring in some new blood sometimes.
I don't think there's any reason to believe these people were not operating effectively. Like other parts of the public service, we have some demographic change and we see a fair amount of turnover because we have a cohort that's retiring or about to retire.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Derek Lee Liberal Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
Sure, and we've seen that at this committee and other committees. Have you turned the corner on it, or do you still have high rates of turnover that would impair implementation of the new processes?
5:10 p.m.
President, Canadian International Development Agency
CIDA has difficult levels of turnover in some of our corporate functions. This is an issue throughout government. I'm sure you've heard it from others, particularly where it's very competitive in the financial area with their CFO branch, etc. So that's one area where we have to concentrate on building the specialized expertise, but it's not anything I'm concerned about right now. In our program areas, no, I do not think the turnover is a significant concern.
I also think the more you have an organization that is stable, that has clear focus, that has a good esprit de corps, to the extent that people have left because they were uncomfortable, there's more likelihood they will stay and do a great job.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Derek Lee Liberal Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
Thank you very much. That's been a great three minutes. It made my day.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Three and a quarter, actually. Thank you, Mr. Lee.
Mr. Kramp, three minutes.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I'm just astounded at the 43 months it would take to approve a sense of direction to come up with aid. I'm pleased to see you're down to the 15-month process now. Why 15 months, and are you happy now? Do you believe this is acceptable? Is it doable, and can you deliver results within that timeframe? Could it be even less if we had even more efficiencies?
5:10 p.m.
President, Canadian International Development Agency
Thank you. Those are good questions.
On the 43 months, I should say that's not from just the approval, it's from the actual RFP, so it encompasses more than just approvals within the department.
Actually, I might ask David to speak on this issue as well.
We feel that the 15 months is pretty competitive with anybody else. It's very strong. In my view, as I say to people in the organization, that's the maximum. We can always do better than that, but we also have to be realistic about the time it takes to do the proper due diligence.
I am going to ask David if he would like to comment further.
December 9th, 2009 / 5:10 p.m.
David Moloney Executive Vice-President, Canadian International Development Agency
Very briefly, the 15 months, as was mentioned, is a maximum. Actually, what we're aiming for is 11 or 12 months. This includes the time, as the president said, for a full RFP, and this is directive programming. This is not responding to an application.
We have four full pilots that are just completing, so we actually have something coming to the president's desk 11 months in. We think it's doable. We believe it is a significantly re-engineered process, as you would imagine.