Evidence of meeting #50 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was every.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
That's why we wanted you to come forward. I think everybody wanted to give you a fair chance to address this.
5:15 p.m.
Former Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
And I'm grateful for that, sir.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
The bells are ringing. May I just bring to the attention--
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
No, the bells are ringing, and I think you need unanimous support to continue, so if you'd like to seek that unanimous support, you're welcome to do so, but--
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
We had them already a few minutes ago, Mr. Saxton. Just hold on to your horses, please.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Mr. Chair, would you please ask the committee for unanimous support?
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
I'm sorry. You have not asked the committee for unanimous support. Please ask the committee for unanimous support.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
I'm going to ignore that.
Madame Ouimet, I think Mr. Shipley and others have raised an issue that you--
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Yes, it is. The bells are ringing. The votes are going on. We've always abided by this. This is normal procedure.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
NDP
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I've got the floor right now, Andrew.
The chair outlined that we would go as long as we could and a couple of minutes into the bells, that we would take a couple of comments and then he would come to me for a motion, and we'd be adjourning some time between 20 after and 25 after. Nobody said boo. I think we're still within the mandate that we gave the chair, that we gave ourselves, to continue for at least another six minutes.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
I respectfully ask that the chair ask for unanimous consent to continue. That's all we're asking for. It's a very simple question. It's something we do every time when the bells go off.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
Thank you, Mr. Saxton. I'm not going to do it.
Madame Ouimet, there are two other very brief comments, as I said. You must have received with insult the information that came before another committee yesterday that your successor may be subjected to a psychometric assessment. What was your reaction to that?
5:20 p.m.
Former Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
I was not aware. Whatever tool this Parliament decides is appropriate...and I can assure you, sir, that I performed my duties
conscientiously and sincerely.
But it will be up to the committee. I'm not involved in senior personnel issues, and I believe you probably know about private sector approaches in that respect.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
Madame Ouimet, you leave me with the last comment from Mr. Shipley that I wanted to build on, and I think Mr. Christopherson had already raised that type of issue as well. In your detailed responses to the questions of all colleagues, and I compliment you, you've raised a question for all of us, and that is that we need to look at the inconsistencies between the Auditor General's report and your responses.
This is a great challenge for all of us, and I say that only as a comment, because I know there's a question coming up. So you might want to reflect on that for a moment.
Mr. Christopherson.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much, Chair. I only need 60 seconds.
When we began, we started with the Auditor General's line. The Auditor General said in her report:
In our view, the Commissioner's behaviour and actions do not pass the test of public scrutiny and are inappropriate and unacceptable for a public servant—most notably for the Agent of Parliament specifically charged with the responsibility of upholding integrity in the public sector and of protecting public servants from reprisal.
And from Madame Ouimet today, we heard:
The Auditor General's conclusions constitute a serious and direct attack on my personal and professional integrity. They are ungrounded, and I utterly refute them. My commitment to the public sector is solid and long-standing, and I continue to fulfill my mandate with integrity and in the public interest.
My apologies. That was from March 10 of last year.
I asked Madame Ouimet whether she still feels that way, and obviously she does. To me, in the interest of Madame Ouimet's reputation, the integrity of the Auditor General's department has now somewhat--well not somewhat--been placed directly in conflict, or in question, at least.
To me, Chair, what we need at our next meeting, at the next available meeting, is to have Madame Ouimet return and to have Madam Fraser. I am advised that in the last half-hour, through the “Kadyverse”, the Auditor General has made the statement that she stands by her report. We are so far apart on something that's very significant.
So I move that at the next available meeting we ask Ms. Ouimet to return, and we also bring in, invite, Madam Fraser to join us to allow us to start to get at the core of some of these questions.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
Mr. Christopherson, I think you'll be pleased to know that when I negotiated with Mr. Whitehall, on behalf of all committee members, I gave an indication that the committee might wish to extend the sitting or hold a subsequent hearing at which Madame Ouimet would be invited. I'm sure she would want to be present. I don't want to put her on the spot right now, but I'm assuming that it would still be acceptable.
5:20 p.m.
Former Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
We agree with what was agreed to. But I would like, for the benefit of the committee, to indicate that I stand by every fact. And in fact, the annual report, the report of the Auditor General, contains no details and no analysis, and in fact does not include the testimony of key people. I fundamentally disagree with the contents of this report and will be happy to continue to answer questions.