Public Accounts Committee on April 30th, 2024

[D/Commr Bryan Larkin]

I'll start and then turn it over to Assistant Commissioner Brown to focus on the indigenous piece, because he's the national leader supporting that.

As Deputy Tupper alluded to, each of our provinces and territories where we're the police of jurisdiction—and/or municipalities—has a leadership team. We engage provincially with our Public Safety, Solicitor General and community safety colleagues to set priorities around the province.

We look at crime severity. We look at patterns and trends and some of the public disorder challenges that are ongoing, and that liaises.... We do have a national deputy commissioner, who supports a number of the provinces and territories. We also have a deputy commissioner in British Columbia and Alberta due to the large size of deployment of RCMP members in those provinces. Our priorities are set based at the localized level, whether that be provincial or municipal. Equally, that is also turned to the indigenous communities where we provide policing support. Again, there's that national function. One of the commissioner's priorities was to launch a full-time senior executive particularly around indigenous pieces.

Around your comments on success, we do have performance measurements—departmental results—that we look at. Those are divvied up across the country based on the area and whether we're the provincial police of jurisdiction or the municipal police service of jurisdiction, and/or we also have departmental results at the federal level within federal policing and specialized policing.

Specifically to indigenous, I'll turn to Assistant Commissioner Brown, as that falls within his responsibility.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Brown, I'm going to have to interrupt you. We're well over our time, but I'm sure we'll come back to you.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Moran and Mr. Tupper, in her report, the Auditor General talks about the lack of equity in funding, which was also expressed very eloquently to the committee yesterday.

Does that mean that some communities received less money than they should have received? Can we make up for past decisions if some communities don't have the capacity to provide a service? Ultimately, if core funding is always the same, more money should be invested in certain communities.

Have mechanisms been put in place to catch up?

[Shawn Tupper]

Mr. Chair, I'll ask Madam Moran.

[Chris Moran, Assistant Deputy Minister, Indigenous Affairs Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Thank you.

With respect to those funding decisions—I think this is something the Auditor General spoke to when she mentioned the fact that some of our funding decisions are based on past funding decisions—the nature of the program provides funding to police officers, and that requires us to earmark that money in a year, and for all future years, because we know that police officer will be in place.

In terms of the equity piece, it's important for us to bear in mind that we are looking at cost-matching with the province. All of the services we have—the 36 police services in the self-administered stream—are expected to meet the standards that are in place in the jurisdiction where they are operating. They are all doing that, some of which are more difficult for them to make it work. As the deputy commissioner has mentioned, some of them are operating in very remote areas.

We continue to try to stabilize those self-administered police services. We continue to try to drive decisions that will ensure they have the funds they need to have stability and predictability and to strategically plan moving into the future.

They are struggling, at times, to recruit, like all police services, and we want to ensure that what we're doing is being there for them to ensure they're playing that role that we see they play in the policing ecosystem in community safety. That's part of the equity piece as well. It's the recognition by other police services as to the role they're playing and how they're operating interchangeably.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

According to the federal policy, the rule is quite strict. The federal government pays 52% of the bill and the province pays 48%.

What happens when a province can't increase its funding? Does it have an impact on equity between the various communities?

[Shawn Tupper]

That's an absolute limiting factor for us. We are obliged to follow provincial jurisdiction in that regard, so if the province is unable to match funding or chooses not to, we cannot act unilaterally in that respect.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

I will now give the floor to the next speaker.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes, please.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My questions will be directed to the RCMP representatives.

Have either of you ever heard of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls and two-spirit persons?

[D/Commr Bryan Larkin]

Yes, I have.

[Warren Brown]

Yes, I have.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Which calls to justice have you responded to?

Mr. Larkin, you could start.

[D/Commr Bryan Larkin]

Actually, I'm going to turn it over to Assistant Commissioner Brown, who is the national lead.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I'm sorry, Mr. Larkin, but this is a national inquiry into the police, not just the indigenous unit that you can silo this into and say it's Mr. Brown's problem. Mr. Larkin, it's important. If you don't know, just say you don't know.

Mr. Larkin, have you read the national inquiry?

[D/Commr Bryan Larkin]

Yes, I have.

I apologize for turning it over to Assistant Commissioner Brown. This is a priority for the RCMP commissioner. Obviously, Assistant Commissioner Brown can provide specifics. I don't have that information at my fingertips or have full knowledge of that; however—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Do you even know how many recommendations there are to the RCMP?

[D/Commr Bryan Larkin]

I actually do not know the exact number of recommendations, but I can tell you the commissioner has created a reform and accountability directorate to track all of the various recommendations, because there have been numerous reports, numerous recommendations to the RCMP—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Do you know how disappointing that is to hear, Mr. Larkin, for indigenous people, particularly the families of murdered and missing indigenous people that you can't even name one of them? Can you name one of the recommendations?

[D/Commr Bryan Larkin]

Again, I will have Assistant Commissioner Brown respond to your question.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

No, Mr. Larkin. I'm talking to you. Can you name one?

If you don't know, you can say you don't know.

[D/Commr Bryan Larkin]

I do not have that.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Brown.

[Warren Brown]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Out of the 231 recommendations, it becomes very complex. Some are provided directly towards the RCMP; some are provided to our stakeholders, and some are provided in combination between us and others.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Do you know how many directly pertain to the RCMP?

[Warren Brown]

I can't provide an exact number, but I believe it would be around 30.