Evidence of meeting #49 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offenders.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
What is the criteria, because I've been through it? We have medium, minimum and maximum in the one facility. Is it to move everyone out in minimum and medium to these lodges?
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
What would it take? Again, they're being institutionalized, and it's not going to work.
5:20 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
It is both minimum and medium. There are offenders we can look at transferring from—
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm showing my ignorance here, as I often do in this committee, but what it is going to take then?
If I look at the facility in Edmonton—it's just down from my office—say 70% are indigenous at any one time—60% to 80%. How many are there because we haven't made the move to create more facilities and better facilities—more appropriate facilities?
Okay, we have this healing lodge. However, I don't sense a will to say that we have maybe 50 women at the Edmonton institution who we should move out immediately to more...whether it's culturally appropriate or better healing for them. What is it going to take? You said that you have all the resources and all the staff you need.
5:20 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
In terms of any of our facilities, we always review the population. Again, there are certain timelines that we need to meet. Security classifications are reviewed. If they're reviewed and a women is now medium security, then we can look at transferring to Okimaw Ohci. It's an ongoing review process.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Do we have enough capacity at such lodges? Do we need more lodges? Do we need more in the Prairies, closer to Edmonton, closer to our major centres?
5:25 p.m.
Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
If I may, I think in creating a healing lodge, we also need the community to be willing and be on board with wanting to create a healing lodge in a section—
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
5:25 p.m.
Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
We do have people—
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Could you present to this committee, then, the communities you're working with to try to create this expanded capacity?
5:25 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes. With the chiefs we met, we actually discussed that. Often they themselves will say—
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Commissioner, I'm going to have to cut you off.
I want to get a response to Mr. Kelly's request for documents. You're welcome to explain anything in that document that you'll send in, if you like, but I do need to watch the clock.
The last member we're going to hear from today is Mr. Dong.
You have the floor for three minutes.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Thank you, Chair. It's a very interesting topic.
I feel sorry that there were a lot of pointed questions toward Commissioner Kelly.
For individuals who end up in your care, there have been a series of failures in these individuals' lives at different stages.
The questions about better education, better programming and the social history are all good questions, but I doubt whether you have much control over that person's earlier part of life. However, you do have responsibility when the person enters your control.
I looked at the portion where it talked about preparation for release. That touched upon the correctional part of it. There are shocking stats for indigenous populations, who are delayed in getting parole or released early compared to other individuals. Why is that? Is it because of a lack of resources to prepare for their release? I can't understand.
5:25 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
There are a few things. Obviously, again—and I don't want to use it as an excuse—with COVID 19, it was more difficult to deliver programs. Indigenous offenders, as I mentioned when I talked about the profile, have fairly high needs. They require more intensive programming. With indigenous offenders, although the sentences are getting longer, there are also some who are serving shorter sentences. We don't have very much time to try to provide this intensive programming. That's why sometimes there are delays.
What we've put in place, though, is a prioritization tool, so that offenders who have an upcoming release are getting prioritized to get into the program. The other thing is that—
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
You just reminded me that I was going to ask another question. We saw the introduction of mandatory sentencing. Did that contribute to an increase in the numbers of people being incarcerated? Do you know that by stats?
5:25 p.m.
Assistant Commissioner, Policy, Correctional Service of Canada
No, not really. If the mandatory minimum is what you're referring to for certain crimes, those who come to federal corrections are serving two years or over—
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
You guys don't have targeted data. Okay.
Going back to questions, is there anything that legislators and—
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
—government can do to help you in that stage of corrections? Is it maybe more resources to prepare early release for the indigenous population?
5:25 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Obviously, if we had more resources, we could do more, but the one thing is that, for indigenous offenders, what we've done is an automatic review as soon as they complete a correctional program. It's an automatic review of their security level to see if they could be moved to a lower security—
5:25 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
It's for indigenous offenders because they are overrepresented.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
I'm afraid that is our time today. I appreciate everyone's comments, and heartfelt comments as well, and the co-operation amongst committee members to split time.
I want to thank the commissioner and her team for being here today and the Auditor General and her team for being here today.
I also want to take a moment to recognize that we have with us a delegation from several countries—Senegal, Rwanda and Vietnam—and I'm asking committee members to hold back for a few minutes. We'd like to get a photo with some of these auditors and, I believe, lawmakers, who are here learning what I'll call “best practices” in auditing.
Welcome to cold wintry Canada. You've actually come at a bit of a temperature break. Last week it was -25°C. Today, I think we're around zero.
With that, I will adjourn today's meeting and again urge members to hold back for a few minutes. Thank you.