Evidence of meeting #54 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contracts.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Before that, we're going to hear from Mr. Genuis for five minutes.
You'll be splitting your time, I understand. I'm going to let you do that. Go ahead.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Chair, we have a motion before this committee. It involves 11 members of Parliament on one of the most important accountability committees, and our ability to look, in private, at vaccine contracts between the government and the big pharmaceutical companies that produced COVID-19 vaccines.
Companies are so desperate to hide this information, and they can't tell us why. They can't tell us what they need to hide. I have to say that after today's hearing, I am more convinced than ever that it is critical for us to access these unredacted documents. There is such desperation to prevent 11 members of Parliament from looking at these documents in private, with no intention or capacity to leak them, and in any event facing sanctions if they were to do so.
This underlines a question at the top of my mind: What is in these contracts that you are so desperate to hide from 11 members of Parliament? I hope this motion passes quickly, in light of your testimony today. I hope we'll have the support of all members of the committee. There's been some discussion about precedent. Allowing you to hide this information would set a very bad precedent, as would denying the supremacy of Canada's Parliament. Anyone doing business in Canada should know—and, frankly, be protected in knowing—that Canada is a country where Parliament, not the executive, is supreme.
Finally, I want to confirm that representatives of Pfizer agreed to provide follow-up information regarding settlement amounts in Canada in the last 20 years over false claims or faulty products, as well as details about whether Pfizer Canada or Pfizer globally retained McKinsey in the last five years, and for what, and in particular whether that was for anything related to COVID-19.
Ms. Sampson, can you confirm, quickly, that you'll provide that information in writing?
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you.
I'll turn it over to Mr. Kram now.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Thank you, Mr. Genuis, Mr. Chair and all the witnesses.
I'll tie up a few loose ends here.
We already heard from Ms. Gauthier about Bill C-290, the Public Sector Integrity Act. Do the other three companies have a position on this bill?
6:45 p.m.
General Manager, Vaccines, Sanofi Canada
I haven't had the opportunity to read the bill either.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
I'd like to shift gears, then. I'd like to come back to Ms. Sampson, since I believe that about two-thirds of the vaccines administered in Canada were from Pfizer.
I was wondering if you could give us some insight as to the timeline of the signing of these contracts. It was reported in the media that Pfizer signed its advance purchase agreement with the Government of Canada on October 26, 2020, but the contract with the United States was signed about three months earlier, on July 22, 2020. Can you explain how it came about that the contract with the United States was signed three months before the contract with Canada?
6:45 p.m.
President, Pfizer Canada
I do not have knowledge of the details of when and why the contract was signed early in the U.S., but I would like to ask my colleague Mr. Paquette to talk a bit about the timeline for the vaccine negotiations here in Canada.
6:45 p.m.
Vaccines Lead, mRNA Vaccines and Antiviral Portfolio, Pfizer Canada
Thank you, Najah.
Thank you for the question.
The actual first agreement that was signed and communicated was in August of 2020. That was the first agreement that Pfizer signed. That was an early agreement to actually establish a basis for a more detailed agreement later on. That was basically a couple of weeks after the U.S. and among the first in the world after the U.S.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Finally, as anyone who remembers the 2021 Stanley Cup playoffs can tell you, in the spring of 2021, all of the arenas in the United States were full and all of the arenas in Canada were empty. Can anyone provide any insight as to why Canada's vaccine rollout seemed to be a few months behind the rollout in the United States?
6:50 p.m.
Vaccines Lead, mRNA Vaccines and Antiviral Portfolio, Pfizer Canada
I could actually provide further guidance on this and mention the fact that in 2021 in Canada, Pfizer alone delivered over 55 million doses, which is way above what was initially in the contract. In other words, Pfizer has been able to deliver more vaccines faster in Canada than what was initially planned in the contract.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
That's really your time, Mr. Kram.
Mr. Housefather, you have the last five minutes. It's over to you.
6:50 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses once again. I know that it's not easy to appear before a parliamentary committee. It's not necessarily enjoyable. I am very grateful for the work that you and your companies have accomplished.
In the current situation, however, the committee is entitled to compel the release of certain documents. I will once again give you the opportunity to do something to improve the situation.
What changes could be made to Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné's motion to make you more comfortable with it?
Would you like to have a representative from your company in the room when the committee members are looking at the documents? Might that be useful?
I'll start with anyone.
Yes? No?
6:50 p.m.
General Manager, Vaccines, Sanofi Canada
I would suggest that I review the conditions on access to documents with my legal teams and get back to you over the next few days.
6:50 p.m.
President, Pfizer Canada
I think ensuring that our legal teams are involved is important. Ensuring the confidentiality protections would be important.
I also think it would be good to understand that if there are any specific concerns the committee has, maybe there are things that we could address proactively with them.
6:50 p.m.
President, General Manager, Canada, Moderna Inc.
I've already said what I have to say about this. I agree that we're not going to settle this issue this evening and that we should discuss it with our internal teams. I agree with what my colleagues said. If there are any specific matters that we need to discuss to help us understand…
6:50 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
I honestly do not believe that the committee will be satisfied. You are here and you can see the questions that have been coming your way. I don't think most of the committee members would be happy with that. A request for the disclosure of documents will certainly be issued by the government. I also believe that there will be a vote on it today.
If the motion were amended to say that prior to the date on which the members would be considering the documents, your legal teams would be consulted to determine if other methods could be used, and that the legislative clerk would discuss these issues with your team, would that be more satisfactory?
6:50 p.m.
General Manager, Vaccines, Sanofi Canada
For Sanofi, the answer is yes, absolutely.