Evidence of meeting #54 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contracts.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you.
I assume you mean you have no other questions for now. We'll come back to you.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Yes, I realize that.
I'm going to take a minute before I turn to Mr. McCauley.
From my perspective, there are lots of great questions and the members' time is the members' time. There are an awful lot of questions for witnesses that deal with legal matters around Parliament. They might be lawyers, but I want to highlight that we do have the legal clerk here. If you have questions, they can be directed to him as well. The witnesses are here to speak about these contracts and their positions on them. I give members latitude, but I do want to say that sometimes I sense that some questions could be referred to the law clerk, if you decide that's where you want to go. Again, it's your time and your decision.
Mr. McCauley, you have the floor for five minutes.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Thanks, Chair.
Witnesses, thanks very much.
I want to put a couple things to bed here. There is zero information on IP or anything in any of these contracts. Is that correct? Any talk of “It's IP that we're going to lose because these are secrets” is misinformation. I'll take the lack of response to mean that I'm correct there.
I want to go back to what I was discussing earlier. I want to look at some of the comments from.... I assume you're all paid members of the various chambers that wrote to us. There's a comment here that 11 MPs in camera looking at these documents could hurt the business environment and stability in Canada. Another one says it could wreck our reputation as a reliable partner with which to do business or set “a worrisome precedent” for someone wanting to invest in Canada and that such a decision could erode investor confidence and have reputational consequences.
I want to get back to how many leaks of your contracts have come from Government of Canada procurement officials. Let's start with Pfizer and Moderna, because those are big ones we're dealing with.
5:50 p.m.
President, Pfizer Canada
Thank you for the question.
I am not aware of any leaks that have occurred here in Canada.
5:50 p.m.
President, General Manager, Canada, Moderna Inc.
To my knowledge, I'm not aware of leaks in Canada.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Right, so there have been none from Canada.
We have leaks probably covering 90% of your vaccine business between the U.S., etc. These leaks, some of them, have leaked everything, and others most. Has this adversely affected Pfizer's investment in the U.S. or the U.K., or Moderna's investment in the U.S., the U.K. or the EU? Has it negatively affected the business environment for dealing with them?
I'd like a simple, quick yes or no. I think the answer is no, but you can disagree if you wish.
5:50 p.m.
President, General Manager, Canada, Moderna Inc.
I'll start.
I can't comment on the leaks that have happened in Europe. We are—
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
No, but has Moderna said, “Well, EC, you leaked your entire thing, so we're not investing in EU countries anymore”?
5:50 p.m.
President, General Manager, Canada, Moderna Inc.
What I can say is that Canada is getting the first mRNA manufacturing site—
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Has Moderna pulled out of investing or divested or anything?
5:50 p.m.
President, General Manager, Canada, Moderna Inc.
I can speak to what I know, which is that we are investing in Canada because of the very secure, stable, predictable environment that Canada has to offer, and we're not investing everywhere in Europe.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
5:50 p.m.
President, General Manager, Canada, Moderna Inc.
We're investing in Canada given the environment it offers.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Is Moderna pulling all of its investment out of the countries that leaked and into Canada because MPs cannot see and redact it? I think the answer is no—
5:50 p.m.
President, General Manager, Canada, Moderna Inc.
What I'm talking about—
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
What I'm getting at is that this whole argument that it's going to damage investment in Canada or Pfizer's not going to sell doses to us is a false narrative, when probably 90% to 95% of your customers have leaked full contracts and there's no negative or adverse effect on their investment. This narrative that 11 MPs in a guarded room with no phones or copiers or any ability to copy anything is somehow a risk to Canadian investment from Moderna and Pfizer.... I'm just putting that to bed.
I'm curious. One of the contracts we saw from Brazil—and this was for Pfizer—needed Pfizer's permission to donate any excess vaccines. Has Pfizer ever refused any country wishing to donate any vaccines purchased from Pfizer?
5:50 p.m.
President, Pfizer Canada
I can't speak on all of the contracts that Pfizer has signed around the world and donations.
