Public Accounts Committee on June 15th, 2023

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Very good.

I'll turn now to Ms. Bradford.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Cappe, for being here as a witness today. We respect your wealth of experience, so we appreciate your coming before us.

Can you clarify for us the time frame during which you were Clerk of the Privy Council?

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

It was from January 1999 through to June 2002.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

It was well before any of these issues we're discussing today came up.

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

Yes.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Did you have much to do with the creation of the Trudeau Foundation?

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

As I said in my opening remarks, when Pierre Elliott Trudeau died, there were a couple of people who wanted to do certain things in commemoration. All I did was make sure there was a structured and disciplined process to assess alternatives and come up with what the government wanted and achieve the government's objectives.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

What was the purpose of the founding of the foundation?

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

What I think sold the argument about creating scholarships....

I'm going to put your question about the foundation aside for just a second. The idea of doing it as scholarships seemed to be a very apt commemoration of Pierre Elliott Trudeau the person, of his previous law professor experience, etc. Then the foundation, I think, became a....

Again, I wasn't involved in that part of it. My guess is that it became a convenient vehicle to do this.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Has it achieved its mandate over the years?

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

I've been very impressed with the quality of the people. The people who were rejected from being admitted were very good. The people who got in were even better.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you.

We heard from Mr. Rosenberg that the foundation is entirely self-governed and that the rules were changed in 2013 to remove any role for the ministers in naming directors to the board. In fact, it's my understanding that the Government of Canada has not appointed anyone to the foundation or its board in more than 20 years.

Would you agree that's the case?

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

I have no idea.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

We also heard from Mr. Rosenberg that, in 2014 and 2015, when the foundation was receiving the donation, almost everyone in Canada, including the previous Conservative government, was optimistically working with China to advance relationships.

Would you agree this was the general consensus during that time in Canada?

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

It was very much so. When I was clerk, then prime minister Chrétien would take an almost annual trip to China with premiers and business leaders. All of this was in aid of trying to promote investment in China, and Chinese investment in Canada, and trade.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you.

You're listed as being a mentor for the Trudeau Foundation. Can you please elaborate on what being a mentor means in terms of the foundation and its work?

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

The mentorship is vis-à-vis an individual scholar.

I mentioned that I had two different scholars. One was early in his academic career. The other was already an accomplished pediatric oncologist. He was still in his early thirties. He was doing his research on public health in Canada. The other one was doing research on public health in West Africa.

Their needs were different. My role was to give both personal and professional advice. One of them—I won't say which—had a challenge with their thesis supervisor. We discussed how to deal with it. Another one had family issues. We discussed that. It really depended on the individual.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

It was a lot of problem-solving and coaching, perhaps.

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

Yes.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Do you have any examples of the work the foundation has done to improve Canada's post-secondary research or assist Canadian researchers in achieving their potential? Can you give us a couple of examples that stand out in your mind?

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

I mentioned the MAID seminar I was at. In addition, I think there were others where researchers doing research in similar areas would get together. The foundation would bring them together.

The other thing was that the foundation had outreach as an objective, trying to get the scholars used to dealing with decision-makers and getting decision-makers used to relying on the scholarship.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Cappe, who asked for the foundation to be named after the former prime minister?

[Prof. Mel Cappe]

I do not know. It was to recognize the former prime minister.