Evidence of meeting #52 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
And you'll agree with me that respect is a bilateral relationship; it goes up and down the chain of command.
February 8th, 2011 / 9:25 a.m.
D/Commr Raf Souccar
Absolutely.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
I'm curious about something. You're here in your uniform. You are the deputy commissioner of the RCMP. But no less than 10 or 12 times in your opening comments, you referred to the commissioner as Bill Elliott. Do you believe that's appropriate? Is that showing due respect for him and his office, since he is still your commander and your superior officer?
9:25 a.m.
D/Commr Raf Souccar
That's his name, and that's what I called him by.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
So you're comfortable with men and women under your charge referring to you as Raf Souccar?
9:25 a.m.
D/Commr Raf Souccar
Absolutely.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Okay.
Do you believe that internal staffing and management practices of the RCMP are best resolved in private, or are they best aired in public?
9:25 a.m.
D/Commr Raf Souccar
In private.
9:25 a.m.
Insp Mike McDonell
In private.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Then, Mr. McDonell, why write a letter on July 21, 2010, which we've talked about, outlining many, many concerns and alleged deficiencies in Commissioner Elliott's management style--everything from partnership building with other police forces, to his alleged lack of operational awareness and knowledge, and of course his management style?
Why was that addressed to the Minister of Public Safety? Why wasn't that handled internally with your superiors within the RCMP?
9:25 a.m.
Insp Mike McDonell
I had asked for that privilege. I had asked for an exit interview, and I was denied that right. At the time, I felt that we were at a critical time and that someone needed to speak up.
9:25 a.m.
D/Commr Raf Souccar
May I also add to that, given that you've thrown the question out?
This was not the avenue of first recourse. As I said earlier, this was an extremely difficult, uncharacteristic thing for me and others to do. I'll tell you what I told Mr. Morden, and that was that you're welcome to look at my personnel file or the file of any others who have stood up, and you will find nothing, in over 33 years of service, to resemble this.
As you said, this was a matter that was best handled in private. It was attempted. It was tried on numerous occasions through face-to-face contact, by e-mail, and by telephone, and it failed. It got to the point that things, as I said, had gotten so bad that I could no longer point the finger at others for their inaction. I was one of them. I was on the senior executive committee, along with the commissioner, and someone had to act. Somebody had to stand up. Standing up was not an easy thing.
9:25 a.m.
Insp Mike McDonell
If I may go further, prior to sending this letter I had met with the deputy minister and had spoken to him with respect to these matters. I had put it to the deputy minister that I was willing to put it on paper. I also met with the chair of the reform implementation committee and did the same. That letter was sent sometime after both of those meetings.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Your letter of July 21, 2010--I'm looking at a copy--had four stated copies. Were there others? You indicate that it was sent to the national security advisor, the Deputy Minister of Public Safety, the President of the Treasury Board, and the chair of the RCMP reform implementation council. Was the distribution list longer than that?
9:25 a.m.
Insp Mike McDonell
No, it was not.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
9:25 a.m.
Insp Mike McDonell
No, there were not.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
So you don't know how this ended up in the hands of the media.
9:25 a.m.
Insp Mike McDonell
No, I do not.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
I know that it's not marked personal and confidential. Is that correct?
9:25 a.m.
Insp Mike McDonell
That's correct.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Deputy Commissioner Souccar, you made reference to the Brown report and the 49 recommendations. I think you indicated that many of them have already been implemented. Was that your testimony?
9:25 a.m.
D/Commr Raf Souccar
Yes. I can't tell you offhand how many, but I believe, if my recollection serves me right, that somewhere in the neighbourhood of half of them have either been acted upon or are in the process of being acted upon.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Do you agree that those are positive changes that will lead to better morale and better oversight and an all round better Royal Canadian Mounted Police?