Evidence of meeting #17 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ross Toller  Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
Brian Wheeler  Area Director, London Area Parole Office, Correctional Service of Canada
Howard Sapers  Correctional Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator
Ivan Zinger  Executive Director and General Counsel, Office of the Correctional Investigator

Noon

Howard Sapers Correctional Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It's a pleasure to be back before you and members of your committee.

I certainly appreciate the committee's ongoing interest in this topic. Drugs, addiction, and contraband are certainly issues we deal with every day in our office.

In my last appearance before this committee I indicated that the problem of intoxicants in prisons is difficult to measure and monitor. Simply put, we know that there are drugs in prison; we simply don't know the full extent of illicit use. One measure of that is the rate of positive urinalysis through random screenings. This is a good gauge of whether prison drug use is up, down, or maintaining some stability. The rate of positive urinalysis has in fact remained relatively constant from year to year. There has been a published 5% decrease in the positive urinalysis rate. This is primarily due to the elimination of certain prescription drugs through the screening and reporting protocol. A steady rate of positive urinalysis would suggest that interdiction efforts have perhaps reached a bit of a plateau. In fact, we may even be looking at diminishing returns in terms of continued investment in just interdiction.

Other methods of detection have also been proven a little bit problematic. For example, the Correctional Service of Canada relies on what are commonly referred to as ion scanners, which have indicated some limitations regarding many substances. For example, they're not very good at detecting marijuana but they are very good at detecting cocaine, so there are some gaps in the use of ion scanners. Plus, we've seen some recent questions around the increased reliance on drug detector dogs. While the presence of dogs may have some benefit, there's really been very little published research on the utility of drug detector dogs. In the one study that was done very recently in New South Wales, Australia, I think about 75% of indications by drug detector dogs resulted in no drug seizure. Another way of saying that is about one-quarter of detections actually resulted in the presence of a drug.

I know that tobacco remains the number one illegal contraband commodity inside a federal penitentiary. To give committee members some sense of what a problem illegal contraband tobacco can be, a small pouch of loose tobacco, about 50 grams, which sells on the street for $18 or $20, will sell for anywhere between $300 and $500 inside a penitentiary. There is an incentive to those who want to make money on a prison underground drug economy to have people bring in contraband tobacco.

We do know, and we've heard in testimony as recently as this morning, that just over half of federal offenders report having been under the influence of one kind of intoxicant or another when they committed the offence that led to their incarceration. Four out of five offenders have a past history of substance abuse, and a very high percentage of the offender population that abuses drugs is concurrently struggling with one form of mental illness or another. In fact, up to 30% of offenders are now identified as requiring some kind of mental health follow-up. We have a tremendous relationship, a co-morbidity, between those with a history of mental health issues and those with a history of substance abuse issues. This history makes it difficult and challenging to both the programs for this population and the elimination of their craving for illegal intoxicants.

In the fiscal year ending March 31, 2010, there were nine suicides in CSC facilities. Seven of the nine victims had ongoing substance abuse problems, five had committed drug-related crimes, seven had an identified mental disorder, and two others were considered to have mental health problems but did not have a formal diagnosis. All nine were prescribed anti-depressants.

This suggests that more could and should be done to deliver substance abuse programs inside federal penitentiaries. Unfortunately, we've seen, for example, a $2 million decrease in money spent on substance abuse programs between 2008 and 2011.

I noted at my last appearance that CSC's own research has indicated the need for additional evaluation to support the effectiveness of its anti-drug measures, including the use of drug dogs and ion scanners, as I mentioned. The importance of empirically based evidence supporting research cannot be underestimated.

A comprehensive drug strategy includes a balance of measures: prevention, treatment, harm reduction, and interdiction. In addition, I think we require additional emphasis on programming. We know that well-designed programs delivered by competent staff to motivated inmates can and will reduce recidivism.

We are keeping our eyes on the pilot project, the integrated correctional program or plan model, or ICPM, which was briefly described to you this morning and in other appearances. I should note that this is still a pilot. It has not been evaluated, and the program delivery, style, and content has not been validated. The outcomes you heard about this morning refer to the delivery of core correctional programs as they are currently formulated, not the piloted ICPM programs.

With that, I'll anticipate your questions. Thank you again for the invitation to join you once more.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Mr. Sapers.

We'll move to the first round of questioning. Mr. Rathgeber.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Sapers and Mr. Zinger, you mentioned in your opening comments that your office deals with this subject matter on a daily or near daily basis. Just so I understand, the mandate of your office is to investigate complaints or issues brought forward by inmates. Is that against the service or against other inmates, or both?

12:10 p.m.

Correctional Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator

Howard Sapers

The mandate is to investigate and bring to resolution, through recommendations, any concerns of federal offenders. I don't have the schedule that would indicate the numbers, but we have received complaints about incompatibilities within the inmate population.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Specifically with regard to what we're studying here today, the issue of contraband—drugs, alcohol—inside federal institutions, what types of issues would you be called upon to investigate where the request was brought forward by a federal inmate?

12:10 p.m.

Correctional Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator

Howard Sapers

We receive a variety of complaints and concerns, everything from access to programs, access to medical treatment and intervention, access to harm reduction programs, such as the methadone maintenance program or the opioid substitution program.

We have complaints around muscling or bullying or intimidation. That is part and parcel of the underground drug economy inside penitentiaries.

We also receive some concerns around decision-making by CSC with regard to institutional charges—incomplete, inaccurate, or unsubstantiated file information around offenders' progress that leads to changes in their security status or their applications for transfer.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Not to draw too fine a line of distinction here, I fully appreciate that there is great overlap between contraband and substances in prison and the whole issue of rehabilitation. But you'll know, no doubt, that in the last Parliament this committee did a comprehensive report on rehabilitative programs for drugs and alcohol in prison. That's a slightly different issue from what we're studying, but I fully appreciate that there's a great overlap.

With regard to muscling, I don't know what that means.

12:10 p.m.

Correctional Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator

Howard Sapers

It's a term that relates to inmate behaviour: bullying behaviour, intimidating behaviour, behaviour that is sometimes related to gang activity. Examples would be an inmate being intimidated into diverting prescription medication, or being intimidated into trying to encourage somebody from outside the penitentiary to be involved in an illegal or illicit activity. It could be muscling or bullying in terms of improperly transferring personal property—canteen goods, etc.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Were you ever called upon to investigate an issue where an inmate's friends or relatives were denied access to an institution—

12:15 p.m.

Correctional Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

—allegedly because they were carrying contraband?

12:15 p.m.

Correctional Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator

Howard Sapers

Yes. We get called about family visits. We get called about concerns regarding search procedures, arranging for personal family visits.

To try to link some of these things together, if there is security or intelligence information on an inmate's file that the inmate is somehow involved in the institutional drug trade, that information may result in an involuntary transfer or reclassification in terms of security level. When that happens, we will often get complaints that unsubstantiated allegations are made in the file, resulting in a transfer or a security change, and that has led to a cancellation of a family visit or a denial of other visitors who come into the institution. Long after the fact, after we investigate we'll find that the file information was wrong. It will be corrected, but of course it's too late to do anything about the involuntary transfer or the cancellation of the visit, etc.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

You talk to prisoners on a daily or certainly near-daily basis, as does your staff. In your view, Mr. Sapers, is there a demand or a request among the prison population for a needle exchange program?

12:15 p.m.

Correctional Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator

Howard Sapers

To the best of my knowledge, we have never received a complaint specific to the absence of a prison-based needle exchange. We have received complaints around things like safer tattooing, increased availability of bleach, condoms, or other harm-reduction measures.

The questions around prison-based needle exchange come more from those who have expertise in public health and prevention.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

I agree with that. I met with the prisoner representation at Collins Bay and Joyceville. I wasn't able to go with the group, but I went two weeks later. I met with the representatives. They confirmed what you're saying. They have concern about tattoos and the safety of tattoos, but there appears to be no popular demand or wish for a needle exchange program. In fact, they think that it would be a threat to their safety.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those are my questions and comments.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

All right. Thank you, Mr. Rathgeber. You left us 30 seconds short. I appreciate that.

Mr. Sandhu, please.

12:15 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Thank you, Mr. Sapers and Mr. Zinger.

I'll just follow up on what Mr. Rathgeber was saying. We heard this morning that bleach is provided as a harm reduction material for the inmates. We know from medical research, medical expertise, that needle exchange programs, or having clean needles, reduces the high rate of transmittal of HIV and other diseases.

Given the very high rate of HIV and other diseases in the inmate population, would it be beneficial to have needles available to them? In the interest of health, would it be in their best interest?

12:15 p.m.

Correctional Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator

Howard Sapers

This is an extremely challenging area of correctional practice. There is some international evidence that prison-based needle exchanges can work, and by work I mean they provide better health outcomes. At the same time, they don't contribute to increased drug use or increased violence inside institutions.

Back in 2005 the Correctional Service of Canada contracted with the Public Health Agency of Canada to do an extensive review that included visits to European sites of jurisdictions where needle exchange is used. That report was published by the Public Health Agency of Canada in 2006. It concluded that there was only positive evidence in terms of prison-based needle exchange.

The Correctional Service of Canada has a health care advisory committee made up of experts in various areas of health practice. This health care advisory committee in 2002 or 2003, I believe, recommended that the Correctional Service of Canada institute a prison-based needle exchange. The Senate standing committee that issued the report Out of the Shadows at Last on mental health and addiction also recommended that the range of harm reduction initiatives offered by the Correctional Service of Canada be expanded.

My office has exchanged correspondence with ministers of public safety and ministers of health around the issue of needle exchange. I think it's safe to say there's consensus that a needle exchange has positive health outcomes. Where there is difficulty is how to integrate a needle exchange into a correctional environment that is trying to achieve zero tolerance for contraband drug use.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Thank you.

I'll switch gears here.

In your annual report, which I read on the way back to Vancouver, you highlighted the fact that double-bunking is a problem. Not only is it a problem right now, but it's expected to increase by 30% over the next three years.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Mr. Sandhu, I'm not going to wait for a point of order here.

We've started this thing saying that we wanted to be very specific on the drug and contraband, not on—

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

I'm getting to it.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

You're working your way towards that?

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Absolutely.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

All right. Then I look forward to how you're going to reach that goal.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Overcrowding is a problem. What impact does overcrowding have on prison access to rehabilitation programs in the prisons?