Special Committee on Indigenous Women Committee on May 30th, 2013

[Irene Goodwin]

We've burned our materials on to CDs. When we couldn't afford CDs, we moved to USBs. So the demand—

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Great. You sound very enthusiastic.

[Irene Goodwin]

When you begin a project, you try to think of all the variables that might come through. What we didn't anticipate, which we talked about earlier today, was that the amount of demand would increase as the awareness increased. If there's a positiveness that has taken place, it's that we know awareness is increasing and demand is increasing. We need to figure out real mechanisms in terms of getting this material out to people and to better resource what we do have.

One of the other aspects we do with the Evidence to Action project is community engagement workshops. One of the most successful workshops we have done—and you may have already heard about it—is the faceless dolls project. Essentially, we tried to create a particular item, like our “artivism”, so that rather than just sitting there hearing about a particular issue, people could actually be involved. We received a lot of positive feedback. That particular project itself was designed to create 600 faceless felt dolls. I don't know if anyone has seen pictures of them. They are very touching when you see them.

We're working on developing legacy pieces now. We have finished that particular project, but we continue to receive requests from people and communities to continue this project. Now we're creating a legacy piece.

We'll actually be doing a little bit during National Aboriginal Day. Creating those types of activities to increase awareness is part and parcel of what we're doing with that particular project.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Am I done?

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Yes.

It's over to you, Mr. Saganash, for five minutes.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The member speaks in Cree]

Was that okay?

[A voice]

Well done.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

First, I would like to thank all three of you for your testimony, which I believe is very important.

Ms. Audette, you launched an appeal that resonated with me. Your call asked that this time be different. This call is also a reminder for us because if there is one subject that should be treated in a non-partisan way, it's this one. So it is a reminder for us.

I would like to talk about the national action plan. It's important, but a national action plan has its own challenges, including how to develop and implement it. Perhaps we can come back to that, if we have time.

My first question has to do with the role you want to play within this committee. I listened attentively to what you had to say. You spoke about working together. That resonates very much with me because that's our party's slogan.

You also spoke about partnerships. That also resonates with me. But we don't all see partnerships the same way.

You also mentioned formal dialogue and clarifying the NWAC's role. You mentioned it and clarified it. Is our recognition of you as an expert witness enough? Were you expecting a formal agreement between our group and the committee? I am trying to understand. If I've understood correctly, Ms. Goodwin also spoke about—

input into part of the development of the final report.

That includes a number of things.

[Michèle Audette]

Mr. Saganash, I can see your lawyer's side coming out.

It's clear for us. How many times have we been disappointed in many areas, with respect to certain files, because the roles and responsibilities of each party haven't been made official? We are calling on you today. We would like an official agreement in writing and have it respected so that there is no disappointment, no misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

Yes, this partnership means that we can have a dialogue and an exchange between adults, experts and elected representatives to find better solutions. I hope to see this relationship, which will allow us to do something new, set out in writing. It would be very different from other committees.

I would also like to feel this time that it will not be partisan. Mr. Saganash, you expressed that idea very well. Our values make us want to make changes for families and women. It's very important. We hope to have a contract that will link our organization and MPs who represent the various regions of Canada.

As for an action plan, Mr. Saganash, it is extremely important that we feel that there is a political will. The MPs of the Conservative majority who are here could perhaps raise the awareness of their minister colleagues who can play a role. As the former associate deputy minister responsible for the Status of Women Secretariat, I call this advancing things. You have the capacity, so use it.

One very important aspect of this action plan is to do something very different. How many times have we criticized you, regardless of the government in power, in the past 20 years? We have said that you have not consulted the first nations, the Métis or the Inuit, and that you sought their enlightened consent even less. This time, let's prove that we can do things differently. The Native Women's Association of Canada should participate in developing the action plan. I guarantee you that if I feel this way, we will work side by side while I am with the Native Women's Association of Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Five minutes go by quickly.

It's over to you, Ms. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you so much for the conversation we're having tonight. I really appreciated the chair talking in terms of how formal that relationship is going to be.

I just have to say that I know we're talking about very difficult things, and maybe this is not going to be something we get to until we get further on in our report, but just a week or two weeks ago, I was at the BDC E-Spirit awards. Students from across the country went to Kamloops. It was fantastic to see the youth, the enthusiasm, the mentorship, and to see the business plans they were putting forward, knowing that these youth were going to be taking them back to the communities.

I see things that have been happening. We heard from different departments. We've heard of some of the work being done with Sisters in Spirit. I have to hope and believe that we're doing some things a whole lot better than we were doing in the sixties, seventies, and eighties.

What are the things we're doing where we're making good progress?

At each meeting so far, I've really been concerned about this whole area of statistics, and I'd really like to probe that.

Ms. Goodwin, you were saying you were having some significant success in terms of methods you use in terms of aboriginal status for the victims of crime. Perhaps you could talk a bit more about how you manage to gather the statistics, because I certainly know that Stats Canada and other groups have significant challenges there.

[Irene Goodwin]

First of all, we're not collecting or doing any type of research, so we're not generating new statistics with the Evidence to Action project. A lot of the statistics that we have generated are from the Sisters in Spirit project. There is an increased need to continue doing that type of work, to better look at what's going on. Our president could probably speak more about the various successes we have noticed.

There is an increased educational component among aboriginal youth. They are the biggest demographic. They continue to have various socio-economic challenges.

What we do now in collecting information comes very much from our needs assessments with families. Earlier I mentioned the family gathering. Part of that process is about dialoguing with the families. We also do life stories. Recently, to respond to the new technologies, we created digital life stories. I don't know if anyone has seen them, but they're a very powerful means of getting our message out. They tell about the challenges families have and the situations they find themselves in. They tell how a loved one went missing or was murdered. From this kind of work, from the stories of the families, we are now moving forward in getting the type of information we need.

I want to emphasize again that our current project does not do research, so that's a limitation. The final report might mention that there is an ongoing need to continue this type of research and generate new statistics.

One of the issues that we encounter, particularly with our community engagement workshops, is that we continue to use the data from the 2010 Sisters in Spirit report. Many people are dissatisfied with that. They want new and updated information, and it's a challenge for us to provide that. We can provide anecdotal statistics, but we need a more proven mechanism. We have had recent conversations with Statistics Canada on how we can move forward. That's the preliminary work in this area.

[Michèle Audette]

This summer there will be a meeting of the Council of the Federation, where all premiers will meet here in Ontario.

We had a discussion last week with the minister responsible for status of women in Ontario, Madam Broten. I told her that economic development for aboriginal women is one of the keys. This summer we have to focus on getting all the premiers to make a statement saying that they will put money aside for aboriginal women.

Also, as poverty is one of the root causes, my dream is to have a micro-credit fund. If we were able, in five years maybe, to help women, and also—

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

I'm sorry to cut you off, but I want to make sure that Ms. Duncan gets the last five minutes.

[Michèle Audette]

Okay. I'll tell you later.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

No, they will have the last five minutes. I'll just try to introduce the....

I'm so impressed by your eloquence and your wisdom, and mostly by your patience and perseverance. I want to thank you. You are three incredible women, and all the women behind you are as well. You have continued to persevere in trying to be a partner in this.

I've listened to a lot of what you said between the lines, and I think the really important lesson for this committee or task group—whatever it's called—is how you will be made partners.

I throw out to you and to the committee the suggestion to think about a process that I was fortunate to be a part of in Alberta, before I was elected. It has nothing to do with this, but I was involved with the Clean Air Strategic Alliance. It operates by consensus. It is co-chaired by a senior representative from industry, a representative from the public, and a senior representative from government. It includes at the table federal and provincial government representatives, first nations, Métis, and public representatives. Every report and every decision is made by consensus.

I thought I would mention that idea; it might be nice to try a different model.

One thing that might be important is the protocols for hearing testimony, particularly from the families. You might want to speak to that. It appears to me that families of victims may be more comfortable sharing their stories if you are here as the representatives of aboriginal peoples.

Although I think the first important discussion is about how this discussion is going to proceed, a subject on which you have shared many valuable ideas, there is one topic I want to throw out to you, given the topic we are supposed to be talking about.

I'm sitting in for Niki Ashton, so I went through the previous proceedings. In all the discussions, there has not been any discussion about the perpetrators of the violence. I founded a rape crisis centre in Edmonton and wrote and talked a lot about the myth that it's the bogeyman in the bushes. It's often the woman's partner, friend, date, or anybody. I'm particularly troubled because from what I have learned from your stories, a good number of the perpetrators are not aboriginal people.

Also, the direction given to the residential schools commission was to go out and educate everybody on what happened and about the role we have to play to address it.

I would really like to hear from you, or even have your feedback, if you think that this would also be an important aspect of the work to be looked at. We can't solve this if we simply do a thousand and one initiatives for the women and girls who are victims of this violence and then not also work on the other side, that long-standing legacy of a bad attitude towards aboriginal women and girls.

[Michèle Audette]

We have to remember that many years ago, our own men were denying that it was a reality in our communities. Today we notice that we have more and more aboriginal men supporting our fight on this matter.

There are many solutions, but because of time constraints I will just say that we need role models, men and women, and we need to make sure that they are talking to their brothers and saying that there is zero tolerance for violence within our communities.

As to the way we treat the perpetrator, we have to respect that some first nations wish to have control of their justice system. We have to respect that. In my view, a good relationship and partnership would ensure that, if Atikamekw Nation wished to have control over justice, of course respecting human rights, we have to acknowledge that. If some want something else....

Do you understand what I'm trying to say, that it's not mur à mur?

Regarding the protocol for the families, I reiterate that you need to have them here for a day or half a day.

I was invited to meet the Zonta Club in Sault Ste. Marie not long ago, where 250 people were in attendance, of whom 30 were aboriginal. I asked them the simple question as to how many of them had lost a mother, a sister, a cousin, or a daughter, and 29 aboriginal women stood up. I asked the same question to the Canadian women who were there. Out of the 220 others there, only one stood up.

That was only in southern Ontario. Can you imagine what the picture is across all of Canada?

We have a big task, and I want to make sure that this is not a one-shot deal, but that we will really work together. Believe me, we will make a change, if that partnership is well understood by all of us.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Thank you so much. Merci beaucoup.

On that note, the meeting is adjourned.