Status of Women Committee on May 16th, 2006

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Madam Chair, we've already discussed this at our last meeting, so what is the problem?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Smith.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Madam Chair, at the last meeting I mentioned this and asked to table a motion. I don't see what the problem would be, just for studying. It is a request from our side to do this and have it on the record.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I think the issue is, clearly, if we all agree, we don't need a motion from one side or another side or whatever. Let's try to keep everything going with a consensus, if possible. We all want to do the same thing, so we all agree on a consensus.

I think it's a much more positive manner when we're going forward and all agree that these are the issues we want to study. It's just a question at which meeting we start and how we do it. We have agreement by everybody to move forward on a consensus. I think it's more positive, especially coming from a women's committee, that we are all working well on the same issues.

Ms. Smith, you still have the floor.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

That's a judgment you're making, but I'm not sure that.... I have had a request from Minister Oda to put the matrimonial property rights forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

There's a committee now, though.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I know. But we have had meetings with our side of the House and agreed we'd like to put a motion forward today. It's to support what we're doing around the table. I'd like to make the request to table the motion today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Okay. Let me move on to the next speaker, then.

Madame Bourgeois, are you speaking specifically to this? Go ahead.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to add something. I think we should have official motions. Women are accustomed to working by means of consensus but very often the consensus is quickly forgotten. So I would prefer that we proceed by way of written motions.

Second, I would very much appreciate having a schedule. It is fine to pass a motion, but I want to know how much time we are going to spend on the subject and when we are going to be discussing it, so that we can be prepared. We could do exactly the same thing with respect to my motion about studying and appropriating the last committee's reports and the government's responses. There seemed to be a consensus on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. It seems like I have to fight to get the floor. And this is not the first time.

I agree with my colleague that we need a schedule so that we know where we are going. First of all, I think pay equity is a crucial issue for the women of Quebec and Canada.

The proposed work plan says that there will be a follow-up to the implementation of the recommendations made in past committee reports on June 1. This could be a good time to talk about pay equity and find out what the government intends to do about this matter.

I do not know whether we can do this, but I think we should even put forward a motion calling on the government to introduce legislation on pay equity. I don't know whether the committee can put forward such a motion.

As my colleagues were saying, the time to question witnesses and discuss pay equity has passed; it is now time to act. We want to know when this government will be coming forward with this legislation. This is a fundamental issue, particularly since the work required to deal with this problem has already been done.

If we agree on a schedule... I do not think we really need to put forward motions on schedules around this table. However, if it is important, we can proceed in that way. I see no problem either way.

I think the expression “violence against women” has become very common and banal. I was reading the last report, which discussed trafficking in women. There have been many reports on human trafficking and sexual assault. We must discuss these subjects. These issues must be priorities for us. Sexual assault and trafficking in women and children are major problems. Moreover, as my colleague was saying, aboriginal women have been waiting for their rights for thousands of years. This is a problem we should be focusing on as well.

We have very little time. Let us try to organize things so that we deal with at least these three subjects before the fall. Otherwise, what will we have accomplished? We will have looked at our previous reports once again and discussed the same reports at great length. We can continue talking about the same things, but personally, I think it is time to take action, and I think we all agree on that. We want to know what the intentions of the current government are. It is very simple.

Could we ask the Department of Justice and the Department of Labour to appear before the committee? Or perhaps the Minister of Heritage could report to us on these two departments. We need to know where we are at.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Mourani, I do have a motion, following the discussion of our workplan, suggesting that we readopt the previous reports, table them and ask for a government response. That's on all five reports that were previously unanimously adopted by the committee. Once we have our workplan done, I was planning to deal with that toward the end of our meeting and try to focus on what we have in front of us.

Ms. Smith has tabled a motion and I have several speakers. Now, if those speakers are speaking to the motion, then we will take them. Otherwise, we need to deal with the motion that Ms. Smith has tabled at the moment.

I now have Mr. Stanton, Ms. Mourani again, Ms. Minna, Ms. Davidson, and Ms. Minna again. Is that specific to the motion that Ms. Smith has tabled?

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Not in my case, Madam Chair. I was going to speak, actually, on the workplan. Certainly, on the motion, if you want to go to that, I would—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Smith has tabled it, so we need to deal with that. We'll put you on after we've dealt with this.

Ms. Mourani, do you have any other comments specifically regarding the motion that Ms. Smith has tabled?

Would you like to read that again, Ms. Smith?

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I have a question about the motion. Why do we need a motion when there is consensus? I'm just trying to understand.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

That's a very good question, Ms. Mourani. As Ms. Bourgeois was saying, sometimes we discuss things and they get lost in the number of things we do around the table. To me, this is very important, and I was very gratified to hear Madame Bourgeois say the same thing.

I have a motion. It is a top priority for me. I guess I've heard more about it as my son is an RCMP officer on a reserve, and I guess I have been pressing the issue on our side of the House. I'm very gratified to see that everyone here is in consensus. I want to formalize it so it doesn't get lost.

It's a simple notice of motion; it addresses everything we've been talking about. I think we're wasting more time arguing over whether we should have a motion rather than just putting it on the table. I think it would be prudent to do that, because it truly is in consensus of everything we've said. I just want to formalize it to say that we're all very serious about this--that's the reason.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

Ms. Smith, please read it.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I'll read it into the record, and then you can make a judgment.

Whereas the equitable split of matrimonial property is guaranteed for both spouses when divorcing under Canadian law; and whereas this guarantee does not apply to status Indians living on reserves where property is split in favour of the male spouse; Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) the Standing Committee on the Status of Women undertake a study of matrimonial property rights of aboriginal women.

That study could also include all the things we've already done.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Minna, to the motion.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Yes, of course.

Madam Chair, to be honest, I find this offensive. This is the first time I've been on a committee where the committee has decided on a workplan, has chosen matrimonial rights as a priority--probably the first one we were going to work on--and the government insists on bringing forward a motion.

I'm sorry, but I didn't realize the minister ran this committee. Regarding the comments made by Ms. Smith about cutting through whatever and making sure it doesn't get lost, I don't think there's any member on this side who felt it was getting lost, that it wasn't a priority. It was raised by Madam Neville at the very first meeting. I raised it and all of us had it as a first priority when we sent in our priority lists. With the exception of tabling reports, that was the first report that we were to work on.

I don't understand why we need to have this. I find it offensive. I think there's an attempt here at trying to show that there's more interest in that issue from one side than the other. Quite frankly, this is not how I'm used to working. When there's a session for discussing the agenda of the committee, people put forward ideas and they work with consensus. This was one where there was consensus. We agreed that we would meet jointly with the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs because we had decided we were working on this issue.

In my mind, this is done. We voted on it as one of the key priorities--probably the first one--and we were already setting up joint meetings with the standing committee. I don't see the need for a motion for something the committee has already decided to do.

I'm sorry, I find that quite offensive. And if this is how it's going to operate, I guess from now on we will all have to get ourselves organized and bring forward motions on everything we discuss in this committee as a way of one-upping each another. That's what I see happening. It's unfortunate. It's not what I would like to see.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I must say, though, that once a committee has consensus, it carries the exact same weight as a motion. It's unanimously agreed that we are going to study matrimonial rights as our priority item, along with the others. From a consensus perspective, it carries the exact same weight that any motion would carry.

Again, to speak to the motion that's on the floor, Ms. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Mine was to speak on the workplan, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Okay, I'm sorry about that.

Ms. Bennett, to the motion.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Having chaired a committee on persons with disabilities, I have to say we found the way we achieved a culture of being able to get unanimous reports was to have as few motions as possible, because it actually does create a different culture.

I don't know why there would be a motion on something for which there is already consensus, but I do believe that it is going to be extraordinarily important that as the committee moves forward, the report from the aboriginal affairs committee be circulated to this committee.

It may have to be a much smaller study in terms of the issues that may remain outstanding after the tabling of that committee. Maybe in a joint meeting with the aboriginal affairs committee you may be able to find a consensus for going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

The suggestion was to have a joint meeting with the aboriginal affairs committee, and it would be the intent at that time, rather.... I'll just mention the issue of starting another study when one that's very good has already been done. I think all of us want to see some action on that file, because it is very important. If they've already had 32 recommendations, we might be able to save a lot of time by having that meeting with the aboriginal committee, and then at that point deciding whether we are going to initiate another study or--