Status of Women Committee on June 8th, 2006

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Sorry, at this point it doesn't include RRSPs or work pensions, does it?

[Mitch Bloom]

No, this is just the splitting of CPP.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Just the CPP.

My suggestion was to create an equitable pension system and that all pensions be split 50-50.

I just wondered if there had been any work done on that, because I think it's an important way of looking at it. Since women are taking the brunt of caregiving, and we aren't going to change that around very quickly, I think we need to come up with an economic solution for women in some way.

That might be one way of doing it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Ms. Minna.

Ms. Smith, Ms. Davidson, who would like to speak on your side?

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Today has been extremely helpful because it's been very practical, very down to earth.

You're the experts in this field, and what we're here to do today is to see how we can make things better for women. And everything that goes along with women actually goes along with men, too, because it's our population. But here in Status of Women we're particularly focused on the plight that women sometimes find themselves in.

In your work in your department, do you see something that you think might really need improvement for women? Do any of you have any ideas of the kinds of things you think should be addressed sooner rather than later?

[Deborah Tunis]

Well, it's hard for me to think about how the parliamentary committee could help us on this, but there's the fact that when they're starting out, women don't always have all the information to make their decisions about having children--some people defer those decisions until it becomes difficult, in terms of fertility--and decisions about how their family arrangements will affect their later income. So getting some information out so that people are aware of the consequences of their choices earlier on would be a terrific thing.

I think that would be a great initiative for the committee to take on, some awareness around that.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

As a teacher of 22 years, junior high, I have to say that I think that's a very insightful comment. Even young women who had pregnancies early and things like that had absolutely no idea about what the effect was going to be on their personal lives later on.

Could you give us some ideas? I don't want to seed your answers, but as an educator, I think it should happen in the public school system or the private school system, to start. But in the practicalities of the world, from what I can tell in my constituency and from my experience as a teacher, there are many women who don't have that information. They have misinformation.

So could you reiterate some possibilities on your wish list of making things better for women? What might be a brainstorm of possibilities that could take hold that perhaps we should look at very seriously to make this happen?

[Mitch Bloom]

Sorry, I was just going to offer—you said you were a teacher. I couldn't resist—

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Maths and science now. I can add.

[Mitch Bloom]

We were digging around in our Nova Scotia office for ideas...and it's not a women's issue for us. Both boys and girls have the same challenge of understanding what the responsibilities are through the course of life, especially into the senior years. As my colleagues would tell you, if you do things right when you're young, it works out a lot better. Even the committee members noted that.

So when digging around, we found this amazing little course that was given in high school to educate students about why they should save, what that would mean, and what their responsibilities are in the system. They had to dust it off, and we just finished re-keying it into our system. So we hope to roll something like that out across the country, using our network to get into high schools so we can educate all Canadians about their responsibilities, because there's no better way to eliminate poverty than by doing it 50 years before there's nothing else you can do.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Would it be possible to get a copy of this little report you just dusted off?

[Mitch Bloom]

I'd love to provide that to you. It's a huge document, but I think we have it now in an electronic format, so we'll provide it to the committee.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

If you could, that would be very nice. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

Ms. Bourgeois, go ahead, please.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, the economic situation of women or the living conditions of women, who now make up 51% of the population, is extremely important for the future of Canada, the future of the provinces, and the future of Quebec.

You are from social development. Women make up 51% of the population. I imagine that, in each of your respective areas, you have conducted gender analysis of the impact of the policies you promote on the living conditions of women. Has that been done? I'm talking about gender-based analysis. Status of Women Canada does that.

Have each of you, in your respective areas, conducted in-depth analysis of the impact of your policies on living conditions for women? That is what I want to know.

[Deborah Tunis]

The department has tried to pursue gender-based analysis, and last year we were before this committee talking about what approach we'd taken, both at Human Resources and Skills Development and at Social Development, and we're now one.

We did have a session last June for all the new analysts in the department to discuss bringing in people from Status of Women and training employees on gender-based analysis. Then in January we had another session to pilot a course for analysts on using techniques of gender-based analysis in our policy analysis.

I'm thinking particularly of those of us who are working on the social development side of the department. On so many of the issues--whether child poverty or family benefits or seniors' issues--we have tried to be as sensitive as possible to the differential impacts. My colleague here, Caroline Weber, is from the Office for Disability Issues. When they do their report on disability issues, they publish the statistics showing different effects for women and men. So we're trying to do our best.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Your answer is insufficient. I am, however, certain that you are very much aware of the living conditions of women: you are women. I am convinced, sir, that it rubs off on you, as generally, women talk about it. You have to do more than try. You are holding, in your hands, the fate of caregivers, among others, in addition to the fate of other women.

How can you tell the minister that his policy will have a negative impact on the living conditions of women who are caregivers? How can you do that if you do not have help, if you have not done the analysis? It is not true that mostly men take care of people who are ill and of children. Women who do not work do not accumulate a pension. A woman who stays at home is prevented from accumulating more security for her retirement. Studies show this. So, how can you tell the minister to include six weeks for caregivers or a certain number of weeks for women who stay at home, when you know full well that you have not done any gender analysis and that, as a result, you have nothing to go on, first of all, and secondly, when you know full well that the woman will have less income than a man at retirement and that she will potentially live in poverty?

My tone of voice is firm. I do not want to quarrel with you, I am simply establishing the facts. Madam Deputy Minister, what authority do you have if gender analysis is not done?

[Susan Scotti]

We do undertake gender-based analysis on all of our policies and programs as they're being developed and designed.

I think Deborah did explain to you the process that we have in place in the department to do this, so that we are in a position to provide some advice on potential impacts, and it is our role as officials to be able to look at the differential impact on different population groups.

It can always be done better, and it can always be done more rigorously, so we're far from perfect at it, but I can assure you that it is an integrated part of the way we do our policy development and design our programs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

We have time for one more questioner.

Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Earlier this week, we heard from first nations women about the regrettable situation facing first nations populations in terms of poverty. In light of that, I wonder if there is any work the department does in terms of reaching out to first nations women. Are there any extraordinary measures that you take? So often they're in remote areas, rural areas, and if anyone is cut off from the kind of information that seems to have eluded seniors, these are the women.

[Susan Scotti]

Mitch has been doing some work with the Assembly of First Nations in that regard. Maybe I'll let him speak about it.

[Mitch Bloom]

Yes. It's one of those vulnerable areas we're aware of, like the homeless. Remote communities are a problem, and aboriginal communities have an even bigger problem. We did a project with the Assembly of First Nations and the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs together. First, we're trying to get a good sense of the scope of the issue, and we're also looking at how we can reach out to them. Our hope at the end of the day would be to be able to reach out directly to people in the communities who might be eligible for benefits. Given the portion of women who get things, such as the guaranteed income supplement and the allowance, those are obviously big priority areas for us. We indeed have that work under way.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

There is a first nations women's group. Have they been included in this discussion as well?

[Mitch Bloom]

At this stage, we're just doing a research exercise together. Once we get to that point, we'll have an opportunity to bring in the broader community.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

Thanks.