Status of Women Committee on June 8th, 2006

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We have two or three minutes left.

I have Mr. Cotler, who would like to ask a question, if that's all right.

Mr. Cotler.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I regret that I wasn't able to be here for the first part of the meeting as a result of a competing responsibility.

Let me turn to an issue. If you've discussed it, then don't answer the question, and if it's outside the ambit of your own concerns, you can tell me.

While I was the Minister of Justice, I was particularly concerned about the absence of a comprehensive and sustainable legal aid program. At the last annual meeting of federal, provincial, and territorial ministers of justice, there was a unanimous recommendation calling on the government of the day--which was subsequently defeated--to enact a comprehensive and sustainable legal aid program. One of the things, of course, that helped prompt this was the disproportionate impact that the absence of such a comprehensive legal aid program has on the poor and disadvantaged, including its impact on women and custody cases, or claimants in income security matters and the like. In fact, it's a whole issue of income securities.

Have you done any studies in your area on the prejudicial impact of the lack of legal aid on income security as it effects women, and senior women in particular?

[Susan Scotti]

Not that I'm aware of. This is really not our purview. It would be more in the hands of the Department of Justice. But it's a great question.

Deborah or Nancy?

We come across the issue of legal aid in our work with disability claimants, particularly in the appeals process.

[Nancy Lawand]

But we haven't really done any studies about representation of claimants in particular. The way the appeals process works, there is every effort to make it such that the individual does not need to be represented. The system is set up in a way that's very accessible. It goes to the locations where people live, especially at the first level of tribunal. It really is an informal and non-adversarial-based appeals process. But we haven't done any specific studies on that issue.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

The reason I mention it is because when I used to go across the country, I kept hearing increasing concern from low-income people, including single women and people involved in custody disputes and a whole range of issues, that the lack of legal assistance was prejudicing their ability to advance a claim or to have a quality of arms, as they say, in the context of a claim. I felt that government was somehow ignoring this and that it was falling between different stools.

I'm just hoping the new government—and I say this in a non-partisan way—will take up something that we in fact did not initiate sufficiently and that we can move forward on it. I think poor and disadvantaged Canadians are looking to us for leadership in that regard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thanks, Mr. Cotler.

Ms. Smith.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you. I do have a couple of questions.

First of all, I think Mr. Cotler has a good point. Over the 13 years that he was in government, it must have weighed on him quite heavily. I think maybe now we can do our best in this area, because I've heard the same thing. It's good to hear that you're still really involved in that.

The other thing I want to ask you about is the GIS. For seniors, there is a $500 leeway for them if they earn a wage. Is that right?

In your recommendations you said the federal government increased its efforts to encourage renewal by sending reminders over a six-month period. I'm not understanding. Is one of your recommendations that we should increase the benefits? My feeling is that that might be very helpful. What do you think? I know seniors in my riding--

[Susan Scotti]

That was not our recommendation. It's not within our purview to make that kind of a recommendation.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I wondered because...I'm sorry, that was the National Advisory Council.

[Susan Scotti]

Yes, it's the council that recommended that.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Oh, I see. So it's not within your parameters to do that.

I know in my riding, I've had three or four seniors come in over this year who are still working, and they have said it's not worth their while working. Most seniors I think don't want to work or can work. Do you think it's a big issue? Or is it only a few people who drop in once in a while who fit into the category where they actually get the GIS and work? It seems to me it's not a huge number of people, but I don't know.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

A brief answer.

[Mitch Bloom]

As I said earlier, we did the research on it and it showed, not surprisingly, that a very small number of people with earnings getting GIS.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

I thank you all very much for sharing all this information. As Ms. Bourgeois suggested, there are so many areas we want to focus on as we move forward on our study.

If you could supply the researchers with the information pertaining to the EI issues and the other charts and so on, we would very much appreciate it.

We adjourn for 30 seconds for the witnesses to leave the table.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Order, please. For the information of the committee, I did table the Sixth Report on the Status of Women on the issue of pay equity yesterday in the House.

Minister Prentice has been approached to come and talk to us regarding matrimonial property rights. He's very keen to come before the committee, so we will try to see if we can schedule that.

Were there any other comments or concerns the committee wished to raise?

Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to share some information today that I think is of the utmost importance and that concerns me a great deal. I would like us to discuss it to see what we can do about it.

On Monday, I believe, I learned that the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights has set up a subcommittee that will study solicitation in order to complete work that had apparently been underway for several years. I think that our participation on this subcommittee is of the utmost importance. To my mind, it must not be done without us, the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

This subcommittee is no longer at the consultation stage, according to what I gathered, but is actually drafting a report that will undoubtedly lead to a bill on solicitation. So I think it is crucial for us to get involved in the subcommittee. I do not know what procedure we could use to do that. I am throwing out the idea to committee members around this table to see what can be done. Moreover, if there is already consensus around the table that we should be involved in the discussions, we need to look at how we might do that.

Should we create our own subcommittee to make an additional contribution? I think it would be unfortunate for there to be overlap. It would be better to get involved on the subcommittee and to work with those members to put out a document with some consensus. That is one of my concerns.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mrs. Smith.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I'd like to bring forth two things as well.

We talked earlier about the human trafficking issue, and before the end of this session I would like to put a motion forward to take a look at the human trafficking issue in the fall.

Also, today there were some very good questions around EI, and we really didn't get the answers. I'm wondering if we could bring somebody in to answer those questions.

On affordable housing, some very good questions came out today, but we just didn't get the answers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

We have to vacate this room very quickly today.

Ms. Minna.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I'll be very quick.

As to bringing someone here on EI and housing, there's no question--and anything else we can get that goes to the economic security of both senior and younger women, which is what we're studying.

On trafficking, that's part of the violence against women motion that we've already passed. I think you're saying that maybe we need to get moving on that topic as well.

Madam Chair, I'm asking for clarification. Did you intend to move quickly and finish the matrimonial issue as soon as possible because of the research that's already there, and start focusing on the other areas a bit more?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes. Our wonderful researchers have indicated to me that they have started working diligently and will be able to bring forth some sort of brief for us at the next couple of meetings. If we can have some communication with the minister or his PS on that as we move forward, we may be able to get it tabled in the House by the time we end on the matrimonial property rights. That will give us an opportunity on that one, and then we can put more focus on the very issues of the two studies we have initiated.

May I suggest that I connect with the chair of the Standing Committee on Justice that has put this subcommittee together? I haven't heard about this from any other source, so let's find out. There was a lot of work done previously on the whole issue of solicitation, but I don't believe the report ever saw the light of day. Our clerks and I will see just where that is going and how we might bring that together.

On Thursday we will have additional people from HRSDC, as well as from the National Council of Welfare. The National Advisory Council on Aging will be here at our meeting on Tuesday. That will be very positive for all of us.

Thank you all very much.

Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I would like to say one last thing, Madam Chair. I think it is excellent that we are doing a study of matrimonial property as part of our work on violence against women. It would be important for us to get something started on the 22nd.

Mrs. Smith is right when she talks about human trafficking. In our work on violence, we must start by studying that, all the more so since the subcommittee examining legislation on solicitation is working in parallel to some extent. So it would be important, because we can make a lot of links between trafficking in women and solicitation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mrs. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I wonder if the clerk has received the information promised from the Native Women's Association of Canada.

Secondly, in support of bringing in other experts to look at affordable housing and EI, I'd like to request that CMHC come in, as Mr. Bloom suggested. There are also national housing experts who could provide further insight into affordable housing, and I would request that they be added.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Okay, we will.

Mr. Cotler.