Evidence of meeting #10 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was income.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Joan Brady  Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Good morning, everyone.

I'm sorry that we always seem to be starting our meetings late because the people before us never vacate their meetings until well past their time. With your permission, I will be sending a note suggesting that it would be really nice if people left their meetings on time so that we could begin on time, because we lose a big chunk of our meeting time when we have to do this. It's not the first time. It happens each time, so we'll need to deal with it. I noticed there's no clock in the room, so I guess we can forgive them for not knowing the time.

As you noticed, we have an in camera component from noon to one o'clock, because we need to discuss some aspects of the study that we're doing, witnesses, etc. There are many things we have to discuss. We also have a notice of motion from Ms. Mathyssen, as you probably all saw.

What I'd like to do is begin with our witness, Joan Brady, from the National Farmers Union.

Welcome, Ms. Brady.

11:10 a.m.

Joan Brady Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Thank you very much.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You have ten minutes to give us your presentation, and then there will be a series of questions from various people. We'll be going until about five minutes to twelve.

Please begin.

11:10 a.m.

Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Joan Brady

I would like to thank the chairperson and committee members for this opportunity to present the National Farmers Union policy and concerns on the topic of employment insurance and its impact on farm and rural women.

The National Farmers Union is a non-partisan, nationwide, democratic organization made up of thousands of farm families from across Canada who produce a wide variety of commodities, including grains, livestock, fruits, and vegetables. The NFU was founded in 1969 and chartered in 1970 under a special act of Parliament. Our mandate is to work for policies designed to raise net farm incomes from the marketplace; promote a food system that is built on a foundation of financially viable family farms that produce high-quality, healthy, safe food; encourage environmentally sensitive practices that will protect our precious soil, water, and other natural resources; and promote social and economic justice for food producers and all citizens.

The National Farmers Union is unique among farm organizations because of its constitutional structure, which ensures that women and youth are given equal decision-making power at all levels of policy development, from local meetings to our annual national convention. The NFU ensures that the voice of women is included on the national board of directors through the positions of women's president and women's vice-president. These two elected positions are determined annually at our national convention. Women are also well represented on our national board, and women have served in the offices of NFU president and NFU vice-president.

I felt very privileged to be elected to the position of National Farmers Union women's vice-president at the national convention held in Saskatoon in November 2008. I have a great deal of passion for farming and an appreciation for the good folks who make farming their business. I am also very involved in my community. I work with various Huron County agencies on food security and poverty issues.

I grew up a generation away from the farm, but with guidance and work placements with extended family, I began working and learning on the farm. I went to the University of Guelph for my diploma in agriculture and worked in the agricultural service sector. In 1989 I married, and my husband and I began a small farming operation in Middlesex County while we both worked full-time off the farm.

Following a barn fire, we purchased a larger farm in Huron County, and I became a full-time farmer. For 12 years I worked as a farm manager, while David worked off-farm. In 2006 we sold the farm and exited the hog industry. I rejoined the off-farm workforce. We continue to farm a small acreage and sell produce directly to consumers. We live in Huron County in the Grand Bend area. I might just note that Huron County is in Ontario.

Over the years, EI, or the lack of access to EI, has affected me and my family. Ultimately, every farmer wants to receive their living from the farm. However, as it states in our submitted brief, a large percentage of farm families are unable to do so. They must take on additional farm work.

In our case, David worked off the farm 45 hours a week for nine months of the year. In addition to that off-farm work, he would work many hours on the farm during planting and harvest. He also helped me year-round to maintain the buildings and equipment. We shipped hogs each week, and as a result, David was never eligible for EI. Those hog shipments were recorded as income against his claim.

In 1999 we were receiving $35 for a hog that cost us $135 to produce. Our annual income from both farm and off-farm sources was negative $35,000. Had the EI system acknowledged net income rather than gross income, we would have received at least the benefits that any other full-time worker was entitled to.

In many farm families, it's the woman who works off the farm to shore up farm income and provide for the family's needs. This same policy of reporting gross farm income rather than net income could easily stand in the way of their EI benefits and, quite possibly, maternity benefits.

Following the changes to employment insurance in 1997 that doubled the required hours from the previous system, many women, who are more likely to work part-time, have been ineligible for the benefits, job training, and educational opportunities.

In 2006, when I left full-time farming, I received a job training grant through the then Canadian Agricultural Skills Service. The ability to improve my skills both enabled me to get a job and gave me the confidence to begin to rebuild my future. Many current job training programs are tied directly to employment insurance. If people are not eligible for EI benefits, they will also not be eligible for job training support. This ineligibility could impact their ability to gain employment in the future and could lock them into inescapable poverty.

Focusing on the opportunities for education and improvement of job skills related to the EI program as necessary both for the health of the Canadian economy and for the resilience of the rural community makes me view the $50 billion in assets in the EI program fund as wasted opportunity and short-sighted savings.

Last week, I travelled with my children to visit family in Nova Scotia. I spent a number of years working on farms in the Annapolis Valley of Nova Scotia. Valley agriculture is currently in crisis as meat-packing plants have been closed and the farmers who had supplied them are being forced out of the industry. My friends, in the industry for 40 years, have gone into receivership and have had to terminate their daughter's employment. There is a possibility that she will not be eligible for EI, as they are required to prove they are dealing with one another at arm's length. They are devastated. They've lost their business, their occupation, and possibly their home, and they have to face the knowledge that one of their employees will not be treated equally by virtue of her relationship with them. Because my friends are self-employed, they are not eligible for benefits or the related job training.

Employment insurance should be seen as a step to re-employment and a necessary support to keep Canada and its workforce productive. Almost all workers and employers contribute to the program, yet only 40% of unemployed workers are eligible for benefit. This inequity must be addressed.

In conclusion, I would like to reiterate the recommendations in the brief submitted to your committee.

The NFU recommends that the federal government follow the recommendations of the parliamentary committee and restore integrity to the Employment Insurance Act by requiring that the cumulative surplus in the EI account be returned to the EI program.

The NFU recommends that substantial changes be made to the EI program to ensure that women workers, particularly those in rural communities, are able to fully access benefits, including job training and other educational programs, and that those benefits be increased.

The NFU also recommends that changes to the EI program be implemented to enable self-employed persons, including farmers, to participate meaningfully in the program.

The NFU further recommends that net farm income rather than gross farm income be one of the criteria that are used in the calculation to determine the eligibility of a farmer's claim for EI.

I respectfully submit this. Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much.

Now we will begin our first round, starting with Ms. Neville.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much for being here today. Your perspective is an important one and often quite singular, so you're most welcome.

I have a number of questions. In looking at your brief, one thing caught my eye, and it's not something you referenced. You say here: “Eliminate the presumption that persons related to each other do not deal with each other at arm's length”. Can you speak to that any further?

11:20 a.m.

Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Joan Brady

I did speak to it somewhat when I gave the example of my friends--

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Right.

11:20 a.m.

Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Joan Brady

--in the Annapolis Valley who had employed their daughter on the farm. Many farm families employ their children. They're not necessarily partners within the farm. Sometimes it's part of succession planning. It makes sense for them to be employed and to receive a wage for what they're doing. Perhaps they need a job or perhaps they're testing the waters to see if this is something they would like to do.

It needs to be assumed that this is just what they are. They are employees, not partners, and they are not receiving any special consideration from the relationship.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

You speak to the issue of creating a category under employment insurance for self-employed workers. A couple of years ago, this committee looked at the whole issue of self-employed workers, particularly focusing on maternity and paternity benefits.

What I'm understanding is that you're looking at it for the whole gamut of EI benefits. Has your organization thought about or expanded on how such a program would work for the self-employed?

11:20 a.m.

Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Joan Brady

I can't say that I know that. I'm fairly new to the position, so I'm not sure if there has been some talk of that proceeding. I think it is, in particular, the opportunity to start over. I think the farm community is very cognizant that there are a lot of farmers in trouble right now. We lost 10,000 farm families across Canada last year, and those people have to go from that job to find something else. Really, they don't have the support they would have had if they had had the employment insurance benefit.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

What I'm hearing you saying is that--and correct me if I'm wrong--at a minimum, one thing that could be implemented immediately would be access to training for dislocated farm workers. Would that be fair?

11:20 a.m.

Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Joan Brady

Yes. The Canadian Agricultural Skills Service was a federal program that ran from 2005 to January 2009. It was to provide farm families with the opportunities to educate themselves and discover new opportunities. It was great. There is no talk of renewing it.

Speaking from my own perspective, that's what saved us. It gave us some resources to begin again with, for sure.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Among the issues you identified as coming out of the private member's bill, what would you prioritize as most important for immediate action, or prioritize for our recommendations to government?

11:25 a.m.

Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Joan Brady

I apologize. I just have to catch up with my paperwork here....

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

That's okay. We all have too much paper.

I'm looking at the recommendations on page 10 of your long brief.

11:25 a.m.

Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Joan Brady

Yes. I think changing the requirements so that more folks are eligible would be the biggest thing. Especially for farm women, if we're working off the farm, we're coming home to work for our families and we're coming home to work on our farms. Often part-time work is the only thing that is open to us. I would suggest that considering the eligibility for previous programs would make more sense.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Do you have any statistics, or does your organization have any statistics, on the number of farm families in which women in particular--I guess, because that's who we're looking at right now--are working off the farm to subsidize the family situation?

11:25 a.m.

Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Joan Brady

I would suggest that the statistics are out there somewhere. In my case, I was an exception to the rule in that I was the farm manager and David worked off the farm. In most cases, it's the gentlemen who work on the farm and the women who work off the farm.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

You don't have any figures?

11:25 a.m.

Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Joan Brady

I have none that I know of, but that's quite possibly something I can find.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Do I have any more time?

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Yes, you have one minute.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

You talked about increasing the rate of weekly benefits to 60% and increasing the maximum yearly insurable income to $42,500, and you talked about an indexing formula. Why did you arrive at those figures?

11:25 a.m.

Women's Vice-President, National Farmers Union

Joan Brady

I think those figures were suggested by some of the other folks who are looking at the issue. I think the big thing to understand is that these benefits have not increased in many years, and they do not reflect the amount of money that it costs to live today.