Status of Women Committee on June 11th, 2009

[Supt Michel Aubin]

If I may add to that as well, awareness is one issue, but I think an important point to note is that when these things happen, the NGOs, the organizations that specialize in victim management, are there. It's not as if the victim is let go into the streets after dealing with the officials. We bring them in and they know that they're right there to carry through.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I was also thinking of the people who are working on site, such as the construction workers and the technicians. Their awareness that they could be participating in a crime is important too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

An eight-second answer.

[Supt Michel Aubin]

Yes.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That was very good.

Now we'll begin our second round, with Madame Zarac.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Good afternoon, and thank you very much for coming here today.

The topic today is very disturbing. On the weekend, I saw the movie Taken; it is a hard-hitting movie even though I realize that the movie was made in Hollywood and that not all fathers are like Rambo. All your activities and your efforts confirm in my mind that some parts of the movie I saw are true to life. You would not take all these precautions for years just to... I imagine that you realize that you are dealing with strong organizations that are well equipped.

You have talked a great deal about international trafficking in persons, so I suppose that my feelings come mainly from that part of the situation, but I know that victims are moved around as well. I spoke to some police officers in Montreal, so I know that some victims are moved from one part of the country to another, as well. What have you done about that aspect? Have you contacted other police forces?

You mentioned four pillars, and the first one of these pillars is prevention. This is such an awful thing to say, and I almost don't dare ask this question, but do you expect that some women will go missing in upcoming months because there will be recruitment? What is being done in that regard? Young and very innocent girls easily fall into traps. What can be done to make sure that does not happen? Are you talking to students in schools? I think we must also raise the awareness of parents, because often they think that this kind of thing only happens to other people's children and do not prepare for such situations. What kind of prevention is being done, working with parents and young girls, or perhaps I should say with young children?

I want to ask all my questions, so I will have to be quick about it.

I know that police officers are being recruited from elsewhere, because there will not be enough officers on site in Vancouver. Some police officers will be sent there for a month. Is expertise in human trafficking among the various criteria used to select these police officers? If not, what training will they be given?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

I will begin by answering your question about police officers. We recognize the difference between international human trafficking and domestic human trafficking, but as I said earlier, police forces deal with these two kinds of trafficking together. They are one particular kind of crime, and often when we investigate a particular crime, that is the point at which we determine whether the victim is from outside the country or from Canada. So we deal with these two different kinds of human trafficking together. As I also mentioned earlier, we are currently having discussions with a number of police forces, including the Montreal city police, in order to do a better job of targeting and defining our work in this field. I cannot give you any more details about that; I will stop there.

As for prevention, I will ask Ms. Arsenault to answer your question, because she is the expert in that field.

[Sgt Marie-Claude Arsenault]

I would like to add that our awareness-raising efforts include both kinds of human trafficking, international and domestic. So all our materials and all our information deal with both international and domestic trafficking in persons. And when we travel across Canada to raise the awareness of law enforcement officers, we do so in an integrated fashion, with federal partners, provincial partners and municipal police. We make law enforcement officers at all three levels—federal, provincial and municipal—more aware of both domestic human trafficking and international human trafficking. These activities target all levels of law enforcement.

What was the second question?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

It was about prevention.

As it now stands, we need to raise awareness beyond policy authorities. We use the same formula for NGOs, so that they in turn can also raise awareness, which has a snowball effect. In a way, we educate those who will be doing the educating.

Should we raise awareness in schools? That is certainly an issue the coordination centre should look at. However, we will have to assess our resources. We have focused our efforts on police forces and prosecutors because they work on the front lines. We are working in collaboration with the Canada Border Services Agency and CIC. We work as a team. We are in the process of training the front-line workers, in other words, those who are the first to be involved in a case.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Ms. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the people who are presenting here today.

I think this is an extremely important issue. I was on this committee when we did the study on human trafficking, and it's an issue that's more horrendous and devastating than many of us ever thought when we started into it.

I want to pay tribute to my colleague Joy Smith, who has done so much work on this file and has worked with many of you as well. My thanks to her and Anita Neville, who had the foresight to bring this motion forward so that we could get this update from you. I think it's extremely important for the Standing Committee on the Status of Women to know what's happening, and I think it's also important to have you back again, either closer to the date or after, so we can follow up on what legislative tools we may need to put in place to continue this endeavour to make our women and children safer. I think that's something we need to be looking at.

When we studied this issue, awareness was one of the things that came to the forefront. People were not aware that this was happening in this country—it happened somewhere else but not in Canada. I've heard a lot of things here this morning that have raised the level of awareness on this issue. I know in my community, as in Ms. Mathyssen's, there is a group that has made the commitment to make the public more aware of human trafficking. They're involved with the NGOs in the community and with the local police force. Cooperation among the agencies is also improving. When we did this study, there was very little cooperation among the agencies. Everybody was operating in silos, and what I'm seeing here today is very encouraging—everybody is working together.

We know that there are domestic and international issues, but one of our big issues has to do with the aboriginal community in British Columbia. Is anything being done by any of your groups to address the aboriginals?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

I will come back to the functions of the Human Trafficking Coordination Centre, which are carried out by the RCMP with its partners. We've been delivering awareness sessions to many groups, but there have been some sessions for groups that deal with aboriginal communities. This is done by our regional coordinators, of which there are six. They reach out to communities. We're not targeting aboriginal communities, but we've had sessions with them, directly through some groups, and indirectly through some of the NGOs. In Winnipeg and across the prairies, where we have a higher incidence of aboriginal communities, a lot of effort has gone into reaching as many people as possible. This is something that's still going on.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Madam Chair, do I have a couple of more seconds?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thirty seconds.

[Barry MacKillop]

I'll be quick.

At the Department of Public Safety we do a fair bit of work with the Akwesasne community as well. Last year we did give them some additional money as part of our Akwesasne partnership initiative to combat organized crime and to look at issues of human trafficking in the community as well. And as part of our call letter for research or programs to address the issue this year, we did receive a very promising proposal from the Métis Child and Family Services Society in Edmonton.

We are aware of it. We are concerned at the possibility, as with any other issues, of being focused on any particular community, and we want to ensure that we have the awareness there that we can assist them in preventing the crime as well as addressing it.

Crime Stoppers will certainly not be limited to communities other than aboriginal communities. It will include all communities. And their campaigns and awareness campaigns will be done as well as their local Crime Stoppers, visiting with communities and sharing the information with parents as well as with people who work in the area and with NGOs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Desnoyers.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First, it seems that tools have been put in place to disseminate information, to communicate, and to focus on prevention and education.

Mr. Stewart might be able to respond to the first question. You talked about 44 cases spread out over a relatively long time frame, from 2006 to 2008, or something along those lines. You said that a certain number of people involved in those cases were not victims.

How do you communicate amongst yourselves? You mentioned five cases involving convictions and ten or so others where discussions took place; were these referred to the RCMP?

My second question concerns resources. Several of you talked about shifting resources and providing training using existing resources. By focusing on this problem, would other sectors involving the protection of Canadians suffer? How much money has been set aside for each of your organizations to deal with human trafficking in an effective manner?

[Rick Stewart]

Thank you, Mr. Desnoyers.

If I understand correctly, you would like to know how agents from our department cooperate and work with RCMP officers.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

It is in relation to the number of cases you mentioned. You said that 44 people had been referred to you, but that a certain number of them were not victims. When you investigate these cases, is the RCMP aware of that?

[Rick Stewart]

Unfortunately, I don't have those details here, but I will get you that information, which is of a practical, day-to-day nature, and provide it to the committee.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Can we get that information?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

Of course.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Can you answer my question?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

I would like to provide you with more information. On a preliminary basis, I was told that the TRPs, the temporary resident permits, are not directly linked to the convictions made in Canada to date. But we would have to look into that.