Evidence of meeting #49 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was hoeppner.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Angela Crandall  Committee Clerk, House of Commons

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

When I entered politics, it was to try and make a difference. When I prepared this motion, I did so because during all of last week I was in contact with people who were victims or who had victims in their family, or with pressure groups, social organizations, that are asking us to continue to wage battle in order for this registry to stay in place.

Madam Chair, what I do not appreciate is this moral blackmail, this moral manipulation, in an attempt to have me say that I do not believe that these people care about women. Perhaps all of us care about women, but differently. I am sorry, Madam Chair, but despite the fact that some are questioning my way of expressing myself and expressing my solidarity towards the women who have asked me to stand up, I will continue to stand up, even if that does not suit the party in power. I must assume what I believe in, my convictions, I must assume who I am and what I stand for and the way in which I do so. If other women want to defend their position differently, that is their right, but I do not have to lower myself to doing the same thing, under the grounds that we must all be the same. I am very sorry, but that is not my way of doing things.

In politics, you have to take responsibility for your positions or else refuse to take part in the debate. If we are not able to assume our positions in politics, then we have a problem.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you.

Ms. Duncan.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thought we had looked at the first motion, but we seem to be discussing it again.

It would never have occurred to me that the remembrance was politicized. This is a remembrance of women. This is a humanitarian issue. It would never occur to me that it could be separate.

And now we come to the new motion. I come back to what Candice talked about.

First of all, before I get there, I want to say that I think everyone who is here is here to protect women. We cannot start looking at one another and assuming that we're not here for the same reasons.

But what Candice said...this was a memorial to those women. I think everyone who's in this room probably remembers where they were when those young women were killed, and it is the mothers who are asking.

So I would like to strongly support your motion.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Mr. Desnoyers.

December 10th, 2009 / 4:15 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

No.

I was trying to understand.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Ms. Mathyssen.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to go back to something Mr. Van Kesteren said.

I think it would be naive if we believed we were going to pursue our obligations in terms of advancing the reality of women in the same way. We approach that mandate differently. The different parties have differing perspectives. I've been here nearly four years, and I've heard a great deal of testimony in that time about how to secure the economic freedom of women, how to make sure they have the ability to free themselves of poverty and extricate themselves from violence. And over and over again in those four years, we've heard that women need a national child care system, affordable housing, pay equity, independence, and the ability to have lives that are filled with hope, promise, and free of violence. But despite the fact that for nearly four years that's what I've heard, we still don't have those things. They are not part of how this country functions.

So I think Madame Demers is making a very important statement here. She is saying that we have to come back and remember why we're here. We're here to advance the cause of women, and if we commemorate the reality of what happened at l'École Polytechnique in this committee, then we're taking a step forward.

I would agree that we need a national day of recognition about violence against women. Brian Vallée, who wrote War on Women, made an interesting comment. In a period of time that Canada was engaged in Afghanistan, we lost 131 soldiers and a diplomat. It hit the front pages. It was an issue we felt very deeply because they were young men and young women who our country sent to do what our country asked. And in that same time, more than 500 women died violently at the hands of people who were supposed to love them. Many of them died of gunshot wounds. We don't have a memorial to those women, and we need one.

In a former life I was an MLA in Ontario, and I was a rural member. One of the things I felt very passionate about was getting a community house, a safe place for women in that rural riding, because there was none, and I worked very hard to get that house in place. In the process of that, I talked to the executive director of the Women's Rural Resource Centre Strathroy and Area, and she talked about how women were abused and threatened and harassed with guns, with long guns. And the guns weren't just used to frighten them or shoot them; the guns were used to rape them. The barrel of the gun was used to rape them. The reality of what that weapon could do to the security, the hope, the aspirations of a woman in a rural area devastated me, because I knew it was true. I knew it was true.

Because of that, I have become a very strong supporter of whatever means it takes to protect women. I spoke to a former OPP officer whose job was to register and control weapons. He said the issue with the registry is that a woman—and this is a woman in an urban or rural setting—calls the police and says she's threatened. They have to be able to go and find all the guns. They have to know if there are two guns or three guns or four guns. They have to know how many guns there are, because that woman will not be safe until all those guns have been identified and removed. That's just the reality of it.

This discussion was inevitable. It was coming, given what's happened in this place in the last few weeks. I would say that we have to stand back from the emotionalism of this and look at the statistics, the evidence, the proof that is there; and in doing that, we should say we need to commemorate these women and never forget them, never forget what happened and never set it aside, for whatever reason. I hope this committee will do precisely that.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you.

Ms. Wong.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC

From the last speaker, it seems to me that it's suddenly become a debate on the gun registry, or the long gun registry. Let's just correct that.

I have no problem commemorating violence against women, because I used to work for--

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I think you might have a problem with commemorating violence against women, Ms. Wong. I think you mean to say something different.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC

Okay, said differently, we don't want to turn this committee into another committee. That's exactly what I'm saying, because when honourable members on the other side started to speak for this motion, it seemed to me that it became another debate on another issue, rather than the one here.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Not really, Ms. Wong. It is not. If you're going to commemorate something, you have to first agree with the thing that you're going to commemorate, so it is very appropriate for the debate to speak to the thing we want to commemorate, and then people can say, “I don't wish to commemorate it because I don't agree with it”, or people will say, “I wish to commemorate it because I agree with it.”

So it is very pertinent to whatever we're commemorating that we discuss the issue that we're planning to commemorate, as to whether we agree with the issue or not. It's very pertinent, because you're moving into territory that's again challenging what I said--

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC

No, I'm not challenging you. I'm saying--

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

So let's move away from it and make a point that has to do with whether you agree that this should be commemorated or not, which is what we're dealing with here.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Madam Chair, can you please repeat the motion?

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Yes. The motion is that in keeping with Standing Order 108(2), it be reported to the House on the first occasion that we can. Then the Standing Committee on the Status of Women will hold a ceremony of commemoration on December 5 each year, which is the date on which Bill C-68, which is the long gun registry, received approval from the Senate and royal assent in 1995--so we're being asked to commemorate that--and that it then be reported to the House, under Standing Order 108(2), whether or not we agreed to this.

We're commemorating the royal assent in 1995, December 5, when the long gun registry became law in this country.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

So the motion is not calling on us to commemorate women who have died because of gun violence. We are commemorating the long gun registry.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

No, we're commemorating the passing of the law.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

It's the passage of the long gun registry. Well, then I guess we are--

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

If I may paraphrase, I think everyone who is speaking to this actually said that they are doing this because they were specifically asked to by the parents and families of the women who were murdered on December 6 at École Polytechnique, and they asked them to do this because obviously they felt that this day was very important to them with regard to the deaths of their children. That is basically what I'm hearing on this side.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Okay, I wasn't finished, Madam Chair. I wasn't finished my time.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I'm sorry, Ms. Hoeppner. Go ahead.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Thank you.

I would strongly suggest that both my Liberal colleagues and my NDP colleagues look to their colleagues, because 12 of their members voted in support of ending the long gun registry. Eight of the Liberal members did, and in fact Niki Ashton has been very public in saying that the long gun registry has not helped end violence against women--

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Ms. Hoeppner.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

--so I think that's an important point to bring forward as we're discussing this. This is--