Status of Women Committee on Jan. 13th, 2011

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Carolyn?

[Carolyn Loeppky]

I can just add a little to what Lisa talked about in terms of the provincial funding for family violence prevention services. We fund approximately $12 million annually for 32 different programs. That funding is considered to be core funding, and it provides money for operational funds as well as for core funding, and we have three-year agreements for those. These are not programs that have annual...they're not projects. They don't have a beginning and an end; they are ongoing programs. So this is the provincial approach in terms of funding for family violence prevention programs.

We still see some challenges in these programs. Second-stage housing is certainly a growing area and a growing challenge. Women who may have surmounted the initial attack or violence need to have that transition, and I think you heard that earlier this morning.

In addition to that, when you talk about sexually exploited children, in Manitoba in 2002 and 2008 we took some initiatives to look at sexual exploitation and human trafficking. It came under the umbrella of what we call Tracia's Trust. It has primarily four major components to it. We're looking at issues of legislation and law enforcement, a continuum of service, which talks about early intervention, prevention, and at times the kinds of things Lisa was talking about in terms of building new resources that are specific to some of the needs identified. Examples of that would be some things that are being done with some of our community-based agencies. For example, construction is under way right now for a rural healing lodge.

Breaking the silence is another area we've talked about. This would be with respect to incest in families primarily and people not wanting to talk about issues of sexual exploitation or abuse that occurred, and also looking at child, youth, and family community empowerment, because we believe that is also at the heart of how you begin to address the issues of sexual exploitation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Loeppky. I think the time has ended for that.

Before I thank the panel for coming, we do have five minutes left. I did not ask a question in the last panel because we ran out of time, but I would like to now. There are some questions that came up from some of the members of the committee for which I felt I might like to get a more fulsome answer.

One of the things we heard, especially when we were in Saskatchewan, was that some women said they fall into a catch-22 situation. They come into town--because we're in Winnipeg, I'm speaking about off reserve. We are told that some of the issues on reserve can be dealt with on reserve. But when people come into the city, they face this whole mess of whose jurisdiction they are in, and it's a sort of lost area.

What we heard was that women would leave and come into the city, where they'd be afraid and they'd go to a shelter, where they may not be accepted, or only for a short period of time, and they would be facing the question of their children being taken away from them. In order to keep their children, they also have to have a place to live. When they are given welfare, it isn't enough, quite often, in the city to rent a place large enough for them and their children, so they therefore don't even qualify. It's a catch-22, and the children are then taken away. So the women are forced out of the home they know. They've come into a strange place in a city. They've not only lost their family ties, but they've lost their children. Their children are also traumatized from losing their family, and now a mother, who doesn't seem to want to take care of them, as far the kids are concerned, because she doesn't have a place to keep them.

It's a vicious cycle. It doesn't really solve any of the problems--and we know housing is one of the issues. I'd like to hear what you think we can do.

I have a real concern about the issue of urban aboriginal women who face violence, because I think we have to find a way to stop this jurisdictional problem. If the federal government, as far as I'm concerned, has a fiduciary responsibility to aboriginal people, I believe that responsibility should be there no matter where the aboriginal people live and no matter what the issues are. It's about health. It's about their children. It's about safety. It's about security. It's about housing. These issues should be taken care of and not be left in the provincial jurisdiction. The province, really, is left holding the bag for a lot of these services, and these women fall in between the cracks. This violence and this problem continue.

What do you suggest? I'm asking you a question and I'd like you to speak very frankly. It doesn't mean you're going to do it, but I would like you to find a response to this, because it is the problem.

Mr. Robinson.

[A/Commr Bill Robinson]

I guess from a policing perspective the RCMP and the Winnipeg Police Service face this all the time, of course, when you have women and people travelling back and forth between jurisdictions. We've had instances where we've had people come to Winnipeg and they've simply vanished, and people from our rural communities of course come in and try to organize searches and whatever.

I think the secondments that we've placed at the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs and the Manitoba Métis Federation, and our cultural diversity programs that we've placed in our Muslim communities and so forth, take away some of the confusion surrounding where a person might go to get advice from police when they do come in from a community and they have a problem, such as having been victimized on the reserve or in the community, and now they're in Winnipeg and they don't know where to report it.

I think other issues as well, as far as collaboration is concerned for various programs between police now, between Winnipeg and the RCMP, have helped, have assisted. Now, is it perfect? No, it's not perfect. I think there probably needs to be greater communication surrounding it for the people in communities. I know that when I speak with chiefs from across the country or across the province, we constantly talk about this overlap. It is a concern. I think the overlap we have and the representation we have within our first nations communities provide at least a conduit for people when they come in. But again, the communication aspect of it could be broader.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Ms. Loeppky, as a provincial person, you might be able to help us to see if we can square this circle.

[Carolyn Loeppky]

Well, I believe the issue of jurisdiction and providing services is a very complex one that has its roots in a lot of the legislation, either provincial legislation or federal legislation. The conversation we had when we talked about funding for child welfare I believe was probably one of the most significant conversations we've had about funding and jurisdiction in a long, long time. And we were able to come to an agreement, because it is a partnership between the two levels of government.

It wasn't without its struggles. There were definitions you had to go through. It still isn't complete, because we've just begun. We're going to learn from it. We're going to look at what's working and what isn't working. There has been a commitment on both sides to do that. But I believe it would require a great deal of thought and careful examination to begin to look at how the historical issues around the Indian Act and other legislation come into play with something like that.

What we do outside of that in order to try to make it work better for people is that we do develop those partnerships and we do look at different ways of providing service, so that when people come off reserve, the intimidation factors you talk about can be reduced to some degree. So trying to house services together.... In the urban area, and now starting in some of our rural areas, we're looking at trying to do a better job of integrated services. In Winnipeg we have access centres that have health and social services joined together, co-located, and that also do some casework together so that people aren't going to five different places to get one thing here, one thing here, and one thing there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Loeppky. I have to keep to my own timelines here too.

I just wanted to ask Lisa Michell something. It would seem to me that the Kelowna accord was something that tried to pull that together with signed agreements between the federal government and the provincial governments in terms of aboriginal people and housing, health, and education specifically.

Ms. Michell, did you think that was a worthwhile thing to be pursuing? Or did you think it was in itself doomed to failure?

[Lisa Michell]

Well, I think we really need to sit around the table and actually talk about this. I think that's a good starting point, because we need to develop partnerships. The thing is, as I'm sitting here and listening to all this dialogue, you know, in my community we keep things simple. We keep things real.

You know what? Just to add to your earlier question about when a young woman comes to the community, comes to Winnipeg, how would I treat my niece when she comes to Winnipeg? Would I throw her out? No. I would ask her to come and stay with me. That's one of the things we do. We open and we welcome.

I think, too, getting back to the federal, the provincial, and all that government stuff--obviously, I'm not a government stuff person--the thing is to consult with the people. Consult with the elders. Get the youth involved. We need to have everybody being part of this because that's where healing comes from. It comes from within. It comes from ourselves, our families, and our communities. That's how it's going to work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank you all for coming. I want to thank you for answering, especially in this round, some fairly complex jurisdictional questions that have constitutional and legal ramifications to them. I hope that we were able to cut through some of the barriers and will be able to find some way through this to some resolutions.

Again, thank you for coming. Thank you for being frank and honest.

We're going to suspend for about ten minutes. Then we will begin with the third panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'd like to call this session back to order.

This is our third panel, and we have four presenters.

This is a parliamentary committee. As I've explained to everyone, a parliamentary committee is a body of Parliament. It reports to Parliament. It's made up of all the political parties, so it's not a partisan body. It's a body that is here to listen, to deal with the particular issue that we're dealing with, which is the issue of violence against aboriginal women.

We're looking at the root causes of violence against aboriginal women. We're looking at the nature of violence against aboriginal women--in other words, what types of violence, and the form that the violence takes. We're looking at obviously the extent of that violence, and we would also like to talk about solutions. We are travelling across the country to listen to communities and groups who present to us. We have already had hearings in Ottawa with many of the national organizations.

I want to welcome you. To begin, you will each have five minutes to present. We have four groups, which means there will be four presenters. I think you will decide who will be presenting on your behalf.

I'd now like to begin the five-minute presentations. I'll give you a signal at one minute to let you know that it's time for you to wrap up. We are on a tight timeline--we have a site visit to go to later on--so I would really like us to try to stick to the time.

We will begin with Kelly Gorkoff, criminal justice professor at the University of Winnipeg. She is presenting as an individual.

Kelly, would you like to begin?

[Kelly Gorkoff, Professor of Criminal Justice, University of Winnipeg, As an Individual]

Yes, absolutely.

First, I'd like to thank the committee for their important work and for inviting me to attend and present today. Most of the information I'll be presenting today is the result of my work as a research associate at the research centre on violence against women, where I studied for eight years, and research after the Montreal massacre.

Part of my work there involved a variety of research topics and evaluations of programs associated with violence against aboriginal women. I can't get into the specifics, but I headed a three-year study on prostitution across the prairie provinces and talked about experiences and some demographic information, as well as program responses. I'm not currently working in the area of domestic violence, but my current work is on criminal justice programs, on the evaluation of new, innovative court programs and related criminal justice policy pertaining to the case at hand.

I've decided that today, instead of focusing on specific projects I've evaluated, I'll give you a summary of the elements of alternative justice approaches that have proved important or promising and, as well, point out some elements that are not so promising. In addition to this, I'll comment on the difficulties of incorporating these elements and programs in a current crime-control climate that is in many ways antithetical to some of these elements.

The first that I want to comment on is to set a context, and I'm sure it's the context of this committee. It is to recognize that the criminal justice system, in all of its responses, operates as a set of colonizing institutions or a set of institutions against aboriginal people.

I'll quote Ovide Mercredi's opening statement at the aboriginal justice inquiry: “In law, with law, and through law, Canada has imposed a colonial system of government and justice upon our people without due regard to our treaty and Aboriginal rights”. It's within this context that I'd like to continue to talk.

We must consider the use of the Canadian criminal justice system to address the rights of female aboriginal victims of crime as inherently colonial instrumentally, and symbolically limited. This manifests itself in a variety of programs from inadequate police attention to stigma, policies, and laws that push aboriginal women into unsafe spaces, where they are generally vulnerable to being abused. Thus, the task is to find out how these colonial practices manifest themselves, in what spaces, and through which policies, laws, and practices.

In accordance with this, I'd like to break down my very brief five minutes into the following themes: first, causes and responses to crime; and second, spaces of vulnerability specific to aboriginal women.

In terms of causes of and responses to crime, many current criminologists argue that crime, including violence, is caused by or associated with the link in the breakdown of ties in communities between people and their relationships with one another. If this is indeed the case, societies are generally more fragmented, and as people become more detached from communities, from those things that are meaningful in their lives, and from the bonds that hold them together, crime will increase.

This, then, forces us to think about solutions to violence against women in the context of community building: re-establishing ties between individuals that will undoubtedly be more productive and beneficial than those that focus on the offender alone as responsible for his or her actions. Often, traditional criminal justice approaches such as incarceration continue to erode those bonds that give rise to the behaviour in the first place, with this again becoming a circular, vicious cycle.

These solutions b include elements of restorative justice practices, which tend to hold more offenders accountable than, really, the western-based legal system. This would include strengthening community programs, indigenous-based community anti-violence programs, and the use of indigenous cultures to reject violence. These can be plentiful, both at a pre-crime level--or what some call prevention--and a post-crime or responsive level. These are often difficult to establish again in an era and ideology of just deserts and a return to retributive kinds of practices.

The second issue I want to talk about is reducing vulnerability at an institutional level. One of the major findings in the study I did of prostitution across the country was that individuals, in looking for service, tended to avoid those state-sponsored, government-based programs. They tended instead to go to programs that were more insecurely funded but offered much more harm reduction, less fear of coming under the realm of the criminal justice system or the Child Welfare Act, and really, the avoidance of particular kinds of state services.

I'd also like to throw out, maybe as a discussion, how the law itself, particularly in terms of prostitution, tends to put women in vulnerable spaces, where they're much more likely, in order to do their jobs, to avoid law and the arm of police and take their work into very unsafe positions that leave them vulnerable to violent incidents. These laws then increase stigma, increase violence, and decrease the health and safety of women on the street.

I'll leave it there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Perfect.

Melanie Nimmo, I think you are presenting for the John Howard Society. You have five minutes.

[Melanie Nimmo, Member of the Board, Assistant Professor in Criminal Justice, University of Winnipeg, John Howard Society of Manitoba, Inc.]

Good morning.

Thank you for having us here. This is a really important issue, and I'm happy to see so many people out and finally paying attention to this.

My name is Melanie Nimmo. I'm an assistant professor in criminal justice at the University of Winnipeg, with a background in street gangs. I'm on the board of John Howard Society, and I'm here speaking for our executive director, John Hutton. He's not able to be here today. However, Kate Kehler is here, and she'll also be able to attend to any questions the committee has.

I apologize in advance, but unfortunately I will have to leave at noon. I teach today, and this is as much time as I could allot. I'm really sorry that I'll have to dash out.

That said, I also want to thank you for the opportunity to share some of the important work we're doing at John Howard Society. We work predominantly with men in conflict with the law, so a lot of people question what we can offer in terms of aboriginal women, the violence against aboriginal women, and the issue of missing aboriginal women. However, it comes into play because we take a very holistic and multi-faceted approach to crime--namely, restorative justice, which is based on traditional first nations notions of community healing and how to deal with offenders and repair harm in the community.

First I'm going to talk a little bit about John Howard Society in Manitoba, and then I'm going to talk about the notion of restorative justice, and specifically our program “Restorative Resolutions”. I then want to conclude by highlighting two programs that we've found to be very successful in attending to violence perpetrated by men, and not just aboriginal men but white men as well, against aboriginal women.

John Howard Society is a national coalition. We have 65 chapters across Canada. We all come together under the banner of advocating for an effective, just, and humane system. In Manitoba, John Howard Society formed here in Winnipeg in 1957. Shortly after that, we also recognized the need in Brandon, and they were incorporated into John Howard Society in 1965. We are currently trying to expand our services to reach out to northern reserves and communities, which are also in dire need of some assistance for alcohol-related and violence issues on the reserves. We're trying to reach out in that regard.

Now I'll talk a little bit about restorative justice. I know that a lot of people are familiar with it. It has a long history. In a nutshell, restorative justice seeks to repair harm. At the same time, it instills accountability on the part of the offender. We note that many victims....

By the way, 41% of the programs that fall under the auspice of restorative justice are for violent offences. Not many people know that. It's not just property crimes. We have found that it's a very rewarding experience for the victim. They're able to describe the harm that was done to them. The victim, the offender, and the community work together to mediate, and to make amends, and to repair harm. So we find it's very significant for empowering everybody involved in the process.

As an example of that, we began running the restorative resolutions program in 1993, with the focus of encouraging men to take responsibility for their behaviour, including violent behaviour against women and children, and to make amends for that.

There are a couple of statistics that I find really interesting: 95% of our proposed plans have been accepted by the courts, and 89% of our clients have successfully completed the conditions without reoffending. This translates into 51,000 hours of community service done in our communities. As well, 450 clients have provided their victims with letters of apology. Again, we're talking about making amends and repairing harm. Finally, in terms of monetary compensation for acts of violence and property damage, over $1 million has been paid back to victims directly.

We strive to meet the root causes of offending. In that regard, we deal with literacy. We deal with employment skills and helping to reintegrate an offender into the community. We recognize that this is the only way to really resolve some of the issues that bring a person into offending to begin with.

I now want to highlight two specific programs that deal directly with acts of violent behaviour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have only about 20 seconds to do that.

[Melanie Nimmo]

Okay.

One program is our parenting class. It offers men an understanding of their role as fathers, as loving, respectful fathers who give appropriate discipline.

Secondly, significantly, we also offer an anger management course. We offer it three to four times a year. We always have a waiting list for this course. We wish we could offer it on a full-time basis. Unfortunately, we're not able to.

With that, I'd like to thank you very much for the opportunity. We really believe in a multi-faceted, holistic response.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Ms. Nimmo.

Now we go to Cathy Denby, a child and youth care program instructor at Red River College.

Ms. Denby, you have five minutes.

[Cathy Denby, Child and Youth Care Program Instructor, Red River College, Ndinawemaaganag Endaawaad (Ndinawe)]

Thank you.

I'm here representing the Ndinawe and the Red River child and youth care program. I'd like to talk about two programs, so I'm also representing White Wolf Speaking, under the aboriginal community initiatives program, through the Sexuality Education Resource Centre.

Let me talk about the Ndinawe and Red River child and youth care certificate program first.

Previous to this program, it was identified within the community, through a few groups that were doing some healing work with women and transgendered women in the community, mostly aboriginal, who had exited the sex trade, that there weren't a lot of services for women once they did some of the healing work and stuff. Many of the women, knowing what the waters were around sexual exploitation and the sex trade, were wanting to give back within the community. At the same time, they were wanting to get off social assistance, wanting to attain higher education and have a better life outside the sex trade.

So the program was developed in late 2006. Funding was confirmed for the joint pilot training program between Ndinawe and Red River College to recruit and to train former sex trade workers in the field of child and youth care in a community-based and supportive environment. The program was developed as an in-community model, with accredited training consistent with the mainstream child and youth care course at Red River College. They have a diploma program there.

This one-year program that was developed through Ndinawe and Red River is a certificate program that can lead into the diploma program at the college. All of the curriculum is exactly the same as Red River College, so there's no differentiation between what's delivered in terms of curriculum; rather, it's more about the supports and the in-community model.

The program was designed, as I said, to help women who were formerly entrenched, or exploited as children and youth, in the sex trade. About 75% of the participants in the program are aboriginal. To date there have been aboriginal transgendered women graduates and also one aboriginal male graduate.

The program is based out of the north end in Winnipeg. We have a program coordinator, a teaching assistant, a counsellor, and two full-time Red River College instructors. We've been running the program since January 2007.

The program provides cultural and social life skills, along with academic supports, that are designed to promote success and decrease the barriers that a lot of the women face in order that they can successfully graduate from the program and go on to gain meaningful employment. The program's main goal is to support the women to further their education after having exited the trade. All participants are on social assistance at the time of entry into the program.

To our knowledge, there isn't any other program like this in Canada. What's unique about the program is that the participants bring an experiential knowledge base that is so specialized and so important to the field of child and youth care. This is an education that you can't get; you have to have lived it. These participants have lived it. They are the ones who are the experts in this field, knowing what to spot, what to look for, and how to better help children who are at risk of being exploited. In many of the practicums that the students are placed in, they are able to spot the child who is at risk of being exploited. They are able to take some action there and are able to work with them.

For most of the women in the program, they see the program as a way to both educate themselves and work towards eradicating sexual exploitation and human trafficking of women and children. We know that the numbers of aboriginal children in care are high.

To date we have 28 graduates of the program. Most are fully employed and completely off social assistance. We also have a class of 12 today that hopefully will graduate in June.

The program has excellent cultural....

My time is up?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes. Maybe members will ask you questions about your program and you can expand on it.

Thank you very much.

[Cathy Denby]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We will now go to the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. We have Chief Betsy Kennedy, and Chief Francine Meeches is here.

Welcome.

Who will speak for the five minutes, Chief Kennedy, or will you share the time?

[Chief Francine Meeches, Swan Lake First Nation, Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs]

If there are two of us, does that mean we get five minutes each?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No. Nice try.

Chief Kennedy.

[Chief Betsy Kennedy, War Lake First Nation, Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs]

Good morning, members of Parliament and staff of the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women. We welcome you to Treaty 1 territory here in Winnipeg, Manitoba.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.