Status of Women Committee on April 25th, 2013

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you very much.

As you know, there are still some serious objections to this bill from first nation communities and a lot of it is really, in the words of Wendy Grant-John, “The viability and effectiveness of any legislative framework will also depend on necessary financial resources being made available for implementation of non-legislative measures...”.

Does the department have an action plan noting what, by, when, and how those supports would be in place?

[Jo-Ann Greene]

The implementation plan unfolds in stages, of course, because with the changes to Bill S-2 before it was introduced, with the addition of the 12-month transition period, the provisional federal rules within the act don't come into force until a year after the first part of the bill, which is the first nation law-making mechanism, comes into force by order in council.

Right off, there are three parts to the implementation plan. It's a communication awareness campaign. The second part is the establishment and maintenance of a centre of excellence over a five-year program at this point, which we talked about earlier. The other part is training and education for front-line officials and officers, which includes training through the RCMP and public safety for the policing and education of Superior Court judges. Superior Court judges are at the level at which the provisional federal rules have the ability to be addressed since they deal also with divorce law.

It's intended to have regulations to help court procedures related to emergency protection orders. We've already had some engagement sessions on potential regulations with provinces and territories. Another session will be conducted in the development of that, and they are to be in place, of course, by the time the second part of the bill comes into force, the provisional federal rules part of the legislation.

Through that time also, the centre of excellence will be operating to assist first nations as that part of it comes into force with the order in council, as well as to also provide information and support—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

What's the budget? Has the awareness program begun, and the training? What's the budget for that? There's no real reason you have to wait for the legislation to do an awareness program or the training.

[Jo-Ann Greene]

We've always been available, doing all kinds of information sessions on awareness. We have continued to provide—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

But in terms of a real strategy of what, by, when, and how, what's the budget for those two pieces, as well as what would be the budget for the centre of excellence? It's not in this year's budget, that's for sure.

[Andrew Beynon]

We have to respect the decisions of Parliament. We have taken some steps as a department to try to disclose as much information as we can about the proposed legislation. If—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

No, but in terms of the awareness program and the training, you don't need legislation for that. Women are still dying by the hands of intimate partners. There isn't the shelter space. Everyone's saying that this legislation will fix the problem—

[Andrew Beynon]

If I may, I think the answer is—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

—on its own.

[Andrew Beynon]

—we do have to respect Parliament in terms of moving too fast on how we're implementing the legislation. You're making a good point—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

No, no. We're talking about the complementary non-legislative things that are the big objections to this bill. People want to see those things in place.

[Andrew Beynon]

I understand, and if I may I would say, yes, we have worked on a draft implementation plan. We have provided for the public notification of the level of funding proposed for the centre of excellence.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Could you table the drafting implementation plan and the budget that you would suggest?

[Andrew Beynon]

Yes, I think we would be prepared to do that. Again, it's subject to final Treasury Board approval. I would also just say for the record, though, that Wendy Grant-John has made some very good points about the importance of the implementation of legislation, not just what legislation says, and I respect that.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

If I may, she also said “a minimal role for federal legislation”—minimal role—“and a virtual universal opposition to the introduction of provincial laws (by incorporating them in a federal law) to deal with this issue.” She actually said, “there was a very strong preference for...First Nations' jurisdiction to fill the legislative gap”.

I think that we are concerned that the national Centre for First Nations Governance had its funding totally cut, and now we have to wait for a centre of excellence while there's no real ability or budget for first nations to fill this legislative gap without resources.

[Andrew Beynon]

On the point about the first nations' law-making authority, I would just say that I think committee members need to consider the balancing act that has been created here. It is different from what Wendy Grant-John has recommended, but there's a mechanism here for first nations to entirely displace the provisional federal rules, without this legislation dictating to them what they must put into the matrimonial real property laws.

It is for committee members to consider if that strikes the right balance between the federal government taking some action to address a gap and respecting the authority of first nations to make their own rules on a different basis, which I think is consistent with what Wendy Grant-John raised. Again, for the record I would say, yes, Wendy Grant-John is right on the point about implementation. If this legislation is enacted, to be effective we have to all look very carefully at the level of investment. So far what's public is the proposed $4.8 million for the centre of excellence.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

AFN has said that the transitional period needs to be at least three years. Right? I guess we have to ask the government members if that's something that they'd be prepared to consider.

[Jo-Ann Greene]

Just to address that, there were other parties that asked for the transition period as well. The transition period is 12 months because it strikes a balance respecting the idea that some first nations are preparing to enact their matrimonial property laws and not choosing to ever have the effect of provisional federal rules. Of course, first nations can enact their own laws under the bill at any time after it comes into force, not just within the first year.

[The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Tilly O'Neill Gordon), Conservative, Tilly O'Neill-Gordon]

Thank you.

Ms. Crockatt, you have five minutes.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I very much appreciate your being here, and the candid answers. I think we're getting a very good picture of the underpinnings to this bill and I appreciate that very much.

I'm hearing that the centre of excellence does have a projected budget of almost $5 million over five years, which is substantial, and that it will be arm's length from government. So it won't be controlled specifically by government, and there will be a good opportunity for information tools and best practices to be shared without government dictating. Is that correct?

[Andrew Beynon]

Yes, and I would add as well that the focus is on working with an existing aboriginal institution so that they have some capacity to start. There's a one-year transition period so there will be time for the centre of excellence to prepare, but it's not starting from zero with an organization that's not used to providing services, using a website, and providing information. We're trying to rely on and build on some of the existing expertise of an institution.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

We've heard quite a bit about the consultation, but I just wanted to talk a bit more about that because it is important that we fully understand how much. So there was $8 million spent on consultation, 103 communities, and NWAC was consulted.

We've talked about Wendy Grant-John now. I gather that she issued 33 recommendations. Can you tell us how many of those were accepted?

[Jo-Ann Greene]

All together, there were actually more like 64, but specific to the legislative solutions or contents of the legislation, there were 33 from the analysis, and 30 of those are represented. For instance, the best interest of the child is considered. That's also in the preamble, and the court has consideration of whole sets of criteria related to emergency protection orders as well as exclusive occupation of the family home. The best interests of the children are to be considered, and that speaks back again to their ability to make a connection to their community and things like that. So that's all part of the considerations—one of the important ones—that children are important.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Did I hear you say that 30 of her 33 recommendations were accepted?

[Jo-Ann Greene]

Yes, and the three that were spoken to earlier were addressed in other manners.