That was the Law Foundation.
Evidence of meeting #30 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #30 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Co-Chair of the Board of Directors, New Leaf Program
Yes, the Law Foundation used to donate a big chunk of money to us every year to get some work done, but that's dried up as well. The only source of real funding is the province.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Thank you very much for that.
I did want to open by thanking you for the work you do, because so many of the people who have come to speak to us in this study are talking about the strategies on how women and girls can protect themselves and, in some cases, closing space: “Don't go online. Don't do this; it's risky.” The idea that rather than teaching girls and women how to avoid harm and instead teaching men how not to cause the harm, I think, is a very good approach.
I'm very interested in something you said about when the men are coming to you, they're in crisis, and you do suicide prevention.
Can you elaborate on that? It's not typically what we think of. We're thinking more about the men who are mandated to come who might be more resistant, and that maybe goes to your initial comment about the men not coming. Are those who are coming to you in crisis self-referred? What exactly is your intervention in that case?
4:05 p.m.
Director, New Leaf Program
The men who come in crisis come from everywhere. Maybe they have just been arrested and released from jail, or maybe they have just come out of court and their name is splashed all over the radio. They're not allowed to go home. They can't get their tools. They can't see their kids. They're in crisis.
When a relationship ends for any reason, or when there's a nasty, ugly incident, whether physical or not, we get really good at hurting each other with our words and all of those other things. They come in ashamed, horrified, embarrassed, angry, confused, hurt, and feeling like they've lost everything.
For every person who comes in that door, we're ready to spend however much time they need in the interview just listening to them, talking it through, and checking out their resources. Unfortunately, our mental health floor has been shut down, so they don't have that resource anymore. We would often take the men right from the interview to the third floor where they could get the immediate help that they needed in that area.
I think a lot of it is just a matter of realizing that someone will listen to them so that they don't have to keep defending themselves. It's that someone has finally heard them.
They can call us. We will do one-on-one for any one of our clients who is in crisis. They see and hear early on that we genuinely care, and they recognize that the men in the group know it too. Any guy who walks through our doors matters to us, and that comes across in so many different ways. For a lot of us, that's all we need. Sometimes I'll even say, “I'll believe in you until you're strong enough to believe in yourself”, and that goes a long way when they see that you mean it.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
You mentioned that six sessions, for example, mandated by a court isn't really enough for transformative change. How long does the average person come to you? You mentioned one who was there for 17 years or more, but what is the average time that the men are staying?
4:05 p.m.
Director, New Leaf Program
We ask for a minimum of six months. The average is probably 12 to 18 months for guys continuing to come after an agency has said they don't have to do that anymore.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
—and then they're staying longer. There's obviously a benefit to them in what you're doing, which they perceive.
4:05 p.m.
Director, New Leaf Program
Sometimes the benefit is that they see they can give back. They can help those guys who are first coming in. They can say, “I was just where you are eight months ago, and I'm so happy for you that you found this place.” That really does a lot.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Are there particular lessons or practices out of your experience that you would like to present to us, which we could then draw upon?
4:10 p.m.
Director, New Leaf Program
Men need to be held accountable. The probation orders seems to be getting reduced to six months again. That's what it was when I first joined 17 and a half years ago. Some of the guys are coming to the group and saying, “Even the courts know it's all crazy, because they only gave me six months.”
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu
Thank you. That's your time on that question.
We'll go now to Ms. Harder for five minutes.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you so much to each of you for being here today and for giving us your time. I know that it's very precious.
In particular, I just want to acknowledge the fact that you each do tremendous work. Thank you for the work that you do in order to make Canada better. Particularly when you're talking about employees, the resources that you have available to you, and how you're stewarding those resources, you do very well. I think that's to be commended, so well done.
My first question is for you, Harvey. You're the one who raised it, but you're both welcome to answer my question. What is the impact that pornography and other intimate images or media are having on the views that men, or even young boys, have towards women?
I've been doing a bit of research myself with regard to the impact of pornography. I have been looking at studies in this regard that date back to the 1980s and the 1970s, yet nothing has been done from a governmental standpoint to address these issues. My question has a few parts to it, and we'll have to move quickly because I don't have a lot of time.
First, what impact are you seeing pornography and intimate images having on young men and boys? Second, what can be done about it?
4:10 p.m.
Co-Chair of the Board of Directors, New Leaf Program
The impact it's having is that it's sending a very bad message to young boys about what a normal relationship is, so they go into teen relationships expecting a whole lot of things that aren't good for them or good for the young women. That happens to varying degrees, and if that happens long enough, you get addiction to porn. Then they can't even have a regular, normal relationship with women because they're not the same as the women on the screen. That's some of the impact.
I think the best work we can do—and it's kind of where we're heading with the Changing Male Conversations program—is to get ahead of it and try to help them to understand that they have to get off this stuff, that they shouldn't look at it, or at least that they should understand what it is they're looking at and understand that it's not real and get them talking about it. That's what CMC is all about, really.
It's more of a societal change. Get young men talking about just being men and being okay without being violent or aggressive. Busting down that stereotype is what CMC is really trying to do.
4:10 p.m.
Co-Chair of the Board of Directors, New Leaf Program
Yes. If we had more funding, that could be a topic in school if it had to be. Anyway, that's where we're going with it.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
I find that interesting.
Let me jump in here for a bit. You used the comment “men be men”, so you're basically saying that we're helping them to define manhood, if I'm understanding you correctly. In a day and age when we're not even sure that there's only male and female and we're wanting to redefine genders, how do you teach men to be men? How are you teaching manhood?
4:10 p.m.
Co-Chair of the Board of Directors, New Leaf Program
Well, you don't. Really what you do is you teach healthy relationships, and that's what CMC is really tackling. I think I said, “boys will be boys”.
4:10 p.m.
Co-Chair of the Board of Directors, New Leaf Program
It's the idea that “boys will be boys” in the locker room. That's an old stereotype example that I was using to talk about socialization issues and how young men or boys are forgiven for talking like that or that it was okay because they're boys. That's no longer acceptable, and we're trying to change that stereotype. We're really teaching relationships, and not really how to be men.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
That's good. Thank you.
With regard to access to pornography and other intimate images, what would you say with regard to media monitoring or media controls?
4:10 p.m.
Co-Chair of the Board of Directors, New Leaf Program
I think parents have to start limiting what their children are able to see on the Internet. Without those restrictions, they're going to look at stuff. Kids will be kids. Teenagers without structure are headed for trouble. I've been doing child welfare for 28 years, and I can tell you that without any doubt. The structure needs to be there.
Maybe there need to be programs on how better to monitor. I'm not sure about that. We haven't gotten that far into the CMC kind of stuff, but we know they definitely have access to the stuff, and it's coming up in conversations at school every day, so we're trying to tackle it at that level.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative