Transport Committee on April 16th, 2007

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

So if that has been happening since at least 1989, have there been any public reviews, whether by way of a formal inquiry or an informal inquiry or proceedings under the Railway Safety Act, to perhaps review the whole issue of safety within railways during that period of time?

[Gordon Rhodes]

I think there has been, but I'm not privy to their....

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Have you been involved in any of those procedures?

[Gordon Rhodes]

No, I never have.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Have you ever been asked to provide input, other than to the Transportation Safety Board?

[Gordon Rhodes]

Other than for my accident?

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Yes.

[Gordon Rhodes]

No. For my accident I had to go through a hearing with the company--180 questions. I had to give testimony to the Minister of Transport, which he has. It's a 53-page transcript.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I assume that you're prepared to assist, if requested, in the review the minister is presently--

[Gordon Rhodes]

I have a copy. If you want it, you can have it. I don't have it with me.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

A copy of what?

[Gordon Rhodes]

I have a copy of my testimony. Four days after my accident, they interviewed me.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Yes, that was the Transportation Safety Board. The minister has actually established an independent review of railway safety within Canada. I'm assuming that you're willing to participate in that if we--

[Gordon Rhodes]

Absolutely.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

So you're telling me that since 1989 there's been a progressive decline in railway safety but there have been no firm actions taken.

[Gordon Rhodes]

None that I can see. Basically, the Mississauga mishap was the last watershed event. I call them watershed events. We've had two in my lifetime, that I know of in railway history. The two were Hinton--I was working out of Jasper at the time as a section man--and that was horrific, and then there was the Mississauga mishap. Those are two watershed events. I'm hoping that my friends' deaths make it another one where real change happens, because that was when real change happened in railway culture.

Since we've gone away from cabooses and to SBUs there's been a steady decline in respect for what we do--a downgrading, I call it, of what we do--as far as management goes. I have a hard time when a direct-line supervisor gets on an engine with me and he doesn't even know what a knuckle is. That's the part that joins the two cars together, and he doesn't even know what that is, yet he's my boss.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

How many years have you been involved in the railway industry?

[Gordon Rhodes]

I'd say 24 years.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Just for the record, in those 24 years have you seen any concrete actions taken to improve safety within your industry, that you know of?

[Gordon Rhodes]

Yes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Can you give me some specifics?

[Gordon Rhodes]

The alerter that we have on the head end of the engines--that is basically what people would know as the dead-man switch, the alerter--was a good improvement.

The rules on rest were a big improvement. There is now an attempt to erode them, and that is a big concern to me, because in B.C. Rail we're only allowed to work 10 hours. On CN they can work 12 hours. Where we work, if you were to put these guys out there for 12 hours, you'd be looking at serious situations, like they have in the States, with fatigue. They just finished a report on a head-on collision that it was deemed to be due to fatigue. That's because down in the States, their crews--their spare boards and stuff--are only eight hours rest at their home terminal and only six hours rest at their away-from-home terminal.

CN fine-lines their crews so much that if you're on a spare board, when you wake up and get up, you're going to work.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Do you consider the provincial regulations in British Columbia to be adequate, or do you believe even they have to be beefed up?

[Gordon Rhodes]

I consider the regulations that we had in B.C. Rail to be far superior to Transport Canada's regulations, but as with anything, there can always be improvements. There are some shortfalls, but they're far superior, generally speaking.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I'd like to just touch on one other thing you mentioned, and that is the whole issue of you being truly afraid of consequences for speaking out about some of these safety issues. That concerns me, and it should concern every member of this committee.