Evidence of meeting #34 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airlines.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Thank you. All I needed to know is either you don't have it or you don't want to provide it.
You're aware of extraordinary circumstances exclusion. Do you accept that might be something the airlines could use as a defence?
4:50 p.m.
President, National Airlines Council of Canada
I accept, sir, that it is a defence in the bill. I don't accept that it's going to be an effective defence. I don't accept that it's going to be—
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
You mean somebody might actually get an answer that you wouldn't agree with.
4:50 p.m.
President, National Airlines Council of Canada
No, I mean effective in the sense that it provides absolutely no operational guidance to stakeholders who are subject to this bill and who are impacted by this bill. If I have—
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
There was a question a few moments ago, Mr. Petsikas, about an alternative proposal, which was to put the charter, etc., in the tariff structure. You may recall--because we have nothing to hide here--that you came to visit me, along with a couple of representatives of other airlines, and you made that proposal to me.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
You asked if the committee would accept it if we put these in the tariff. I asked you how long it would take you to do that.
4:50 p.m.
President, National Airlines Council of Canada
We did it, sir, at the end of April.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
You said it would be something like about two weeks, or maybe a little longer; maybe it would take you about a month. I'm not being sarcastic; I'm just giving you a sense that people were trying to be flexible.
Then you and I had a conversation last June. You said, nah, that's a little too tough; I think we're going to tough this out; we're going to tough this out because we don't like the legislation; we'll wait and see if the government lasts, and fine, it'll die on the order paper.
This is for a private member's bill--for a private member's bill, Mr. Petsikas. How come you didn't put it in your tariff structure?
4:50 p.m.
President, National Airlines Council of Canada
Mr. Volpe, I will correct the record right now. The record is that we filed our amendments to our tariffs last spring, sir, at the end of April. Your facts are incorrect, sir. We have filed them with the Canadian Transportation Agency. It took a little longer, sometimes, than we thought it would, because unfortunately the CTA does have its rules of procedures and needs advance notice.
Those were filed, Mr. Volpe.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
You only filed them in the spring. That was eight months after you told me it was going to take two weeks.
4:50 p.m.
President, National Airlines Council of Canada
Mr. Volpe, it didn't take eight months after I told you that, sir. Please, I would ask you to—
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Let's go back to some of the facts then. Let's go to the issue right now in your presentation that this is not going to do anything for passengers, for consumers.
The government on this side here is trumpeting crime and justice legislation. It's all deterrent. Deterrent is going to modify behaviour.
Now, that's a solid way of thinking of things. What would be wrong with the concept of deterrent? In other words, that would be telling you and your members that if you don't provide the service someone expects when they pay money, you're likely to be fined. Notice I said “likely”. It's not that you are going to be, but that you are likely to be fined.
Is it so wrong for someone to suggest that you could have liability if you don't provide the service that you took money for?
4:50 p.m.
President, National Airlines Council of Canada
May I answer the question, sir?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Is it wrong or isn't it? All you have to do is say yes or no.
4:50 p.m.
President, National Airlines Council of Canada
Mr. Volpe, there is nothing wrong at all with it being said that—
4:50 p.m.
President, National Airlines Council of Canada
No, sir, just a second. May I answer the question?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Well, I'm going to give him a chance to expand.
For example, you have to build that answer; into that answer you have to build—
4:50 p.m.
President, National Airlines Council of Canada
The point we're trying to make, Mr. Volpe....
With respect, Mr. Volpe—
