Transport Committee on April 20th, 2010

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Oh. Okay.

[Marc Grégoire]

But that money is not necessarily in addition to what they are spending now. Last year, for instance, their budget was around $600 million, but their A-base, if you will, the zero-base budget they have in the fiscal framework is, I think, $234 million.

They cannot operate at $234 million, so the money they are getting is money that will allow them to operate for the next five years and thereafter. It's not to acquire tons of equipment. There is a very small amount of capital investment in that amount.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

There's a notional commitment of about $300 million a year every year for the next five years. That's something that Canadians are going to have to pay for; they're going to be taxed for it. They're going to do it with a new airport security fee charge, so if they travel, they pay. If they don't travel, they don't pay.

From your perspective, is that money going directly to CATSA's operating line, or is that going into the consolidated general revenue?

[Marc Grégoire]

The revenues are going into the consolidated revenues, but every year, the Department of Finance gets the OAG to analyze the revenues they get from this versus the expenditures. There has been a promise that over a five-year period there would be a balance between the revenues and the expenditures. But some of the expenses are not for CATSA; part of our own budget comes from those revenues. The--

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

So there's not really any indication that the money going into the consolidated general revenues is actually going to go for national security. Because I think I heard you and Mr. McGarr tell us that all of the things are pretty good so far and that they had provided a plan, after two years of study, that would have been satisfied by an $11-million, 44-machine acquisition project.

Now I'm hearing you tell us that the $1.5 billion is going to go to the consolidated general revenue, but along with a “promise”. I think that was the word you used.

When you were speaking in French, I believe you said something about a promise. A promise is worth much more than a tax. A tax is reality. A promise is a future philosophy.

Are you telling us that CATSA is going to have to negotiate every year with Transport Canada, and the transport minister is going to have to negotiate every year with the finance minister, to get access to some of that $1.5 billion that's going to be raised on the backs of travellers? Is that what you're telling me?

[Marc Grégoire]

No. That is not what I am saying--

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Jean, on a point of order.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Yes. I'm holding on to every word Mr. Volpe says with bated breath, but there's some feedback from a BlackBerry that keeps bouncing back. I think it might be the one sitting right beside Mr. Volpe's mike. As a result it's interfering quite a bit--for me anyway.

Maybe you could just move that to the side.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

[Inaudible--Editor]...single-sourced. I will just put it over to one side.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

[Inaudible--Editor]...an arm's-length relationship.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Grégoire was responding.

Could I ask that your response be brief?

Then we'll go to Mr. Gaudet.

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes, I'll be very brief.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I think he already said no.

[Marc Grégoire]

No, no...but, Mr. Volpe, let me explain. I'll be very brief. The revenues are going into the fund. The projected revenues--from Finance, that is--over the next five years are $3.2 billion. The forecasted expenditures over the next five years are $3.2 billion. So the projected revenues and the projected expenditures balance over five years.

The lion's share of that goes to--

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Grégoire--

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

We have to go to Monsieur Gaudet. I'm sorry.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to our witnesses.

I ask strange questions. You said that you reviewed CATSA's operations. Is CATSA fulfilling its mandate?

[Marc Grégoire]

A few years ago, an expert panel was mandated to undertake a complete review of CATSA. The minister at the time had mandated this group of experts to entirely review the Canadian Air Transport Security Act and CATSA operations in order to make recommendations. This panel made many recommendations, a number of which were implemented. Others are underway.

Despite this, the minister said he wanted to once again review the effectiveness of CATSA and have consultations to see what could be done to improve operations. The minister made this announcement last month.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Earlier, Mr. McGarr said they were acting according to the regulatory framework. What is the regulatory framework?

[Marc Grégoire]

Regulations are developed by Transport Canada. The Aeronautics Act grants the minister the power to make regulations and security measures which remain secret. CATSA must comply with all of the regulations we establish and which are based on international standards adopted by the ICAO in Montreal.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Okay.

My question is more political than that. With respect to what happened last December, do you shoulder the blame, or Transport Canada, or should CATSA be held responsible?

[Marc Grégoire]

No. What happened...

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

You're telling me that CATSA complies with the framework established by Transport Canada. If the people at Transport Canada are responsible, we reprimand them. If it is the people at CATSA, we reprimand them.

I want to know who is responsible for what.

[Marc Grégoire]

In this case, the responsible agency —and I am not sure you can reprimand it—is the Transportation Security Administration in the United States. It is a part of the United States Department of Homeland Security. Following the terrorist incident of December 25, that administration decided that, as of the evening of December 25, 100% of passengers on flights to the United States, regardless of their point of departure, would have to be subjected to a secondary search. The Americans have changed this policy on a number of occasions. They changed it at the beginning of January. So, we had to comply, when the TSA...