Evidence of meeting #65 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was shippers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Annette Gibbons  Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Alain Langlois  Senior Legal Counsel, Team Leader Modal Transportation Law, Department of Transport
Carolyn Crook  Director, Rail Policy, Department of Transport

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

I'll call this meeting to order, pursuant to the order of reference of Friday, February 8 of 2013, Bill C-52, An Act to amend the Canada Transportation Act (administration, air and railway transportation and arbitration). We do have witnesses here, I believe just to answer questions if necessary: Ms. Crook, Ms. Gibbons, and Mr. Langlois.

With that, we're going to be going through clause-by-clause. I might as well note it now because it will come up: for a lot of the amendments, the same amendment wording was put forth by both the NDP and the Liberals. The order that they will be dealt with, of course, is the order that they came in. I know in a number of cases, the NDP had theirs in ahead of Mr. Goodale.

I understand, Mr. Goodale, you had a concern with that, but that's the way it is. I think you understand that.

Ms. Morin.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Before we continue the meeting, I would like to introduce the following motion:

That the committee meeting time, for the remainder of the current rotational committee schedule, be 3:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. as decided by a recorded vote by committee members.

We do not have to talk about it today, given that we have witnesses and I would not want them to wait. I simply wanted to introduce the motion.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

I take it that one hasn't had the 48 hours. Okay.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Mr. Chairman, we could debate it now. I think it would have unanimous consent to do that, if you want to get it over with.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Okay, we have unanimous consent? Yes? No?

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

No.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Okay. It's not that important, then, I guess.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

It's up to them.

3:45 p.m.

An hon. member

We said okay.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

It's okay to debate or not? Yes?

Mr. Holder.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON

Sorry, I just want to be clear. Madame Morin suggested that we should debate. She gave a notice of motion. We said we were good with it. Then you withdrew it, so what is the current status?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Just to clarify, Mr. Poilievre indicated that we could discuss it right now. She indicated no, but now she has changed her mind, and we are going to discuss it.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON

Fine.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Did you want to speak to her motion, Mr. Holder?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON

I will at the appropriate time, Chair, if you'll recognize me.

3:45 p.m.

An hon. member

Do we have a copy of it?

3:45 p.m.

An hon. member

What is the motion?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Basically, it was agreed upon at meeting in the last three or four weeks that we start meetings at 3:45 p.m. instead of 3:30 p.m. because of question period and what have you and the fact that we're across the road. Most of our meetings were getting started past 3:30 p.m. anyway because members weren't able to get here.

So we decided to change it to 3:45, Mr. Goodale. Ms. Morin's motion would change it back to 3:30. It's pretty straightforward.

3:45 p.m.

Ralph Goodale Wascana, Lib.

How about 3:37 and a half?

3:45 p.m.

An hon. member

I was looking for that compromise.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Mr. Poilievre.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I'm opposed to the motion. In the aftermath of question period, there is a bottleneck at the bus station for those people who take the bus. I personally walk, but in any event, the reality of the nature of our work is such that we often get information throughout the day relating to committee proceedings, information on which we cannot confer with our colleagues prior to this meeting unless we have an extra 15 minutes between the end of question period and the commencement of this session.

When most people get out of question period, depending on the day, at around 3:10 p.m., the possibility of having a meeting prior to the beginning of this committee before 3:30 p.m. is limited on the best of days. I think it's reasonable to have half an hour between the time people leave the House of Commons from question period and the beginning of the session here. That's consistent with how we've done it before. In the previous time slot we had, we arranged to have the meeting acknowledge the travel time between this room and the House of Commons. I think it's fair to continue doing that.

I might also add that I don't see the problem with 3:45 p.m. I haven't found that any of our meetings have been short of time, and if ever they were, I'm sure colleagues would work together to accommodate demands for additional time on a given subject.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

On your point about previous time scheduling, those meetings were ending 15 minutes earlier—the same amount of time we are talking about now—in order for people to get to question period and question period practice. So you are correct on that.

Ms. Morin, go ahead, please.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The reason I am introducing this motion is that I think it is problematic to cut a two-hour meeting by 15 minutes. I feel it is important for us to listen to our witnesses and to have time to ask questions until the end of the meeting. If we shorten it by 15 minutes, the first witnesses will have one hour, including the 10 minutes for presentations, but we will not have as much time to ask other witnesses questions.

Travel time was brought up as an argument, but I really don’t think it is a good one. Actually, there are about a dozen other committees that meet at the same time, either on Mondays or Wednesdays. In some cases, the meetings are held in buildings that are much farther away than ours, such as the Wellington Building. Getting there takes a lot longer than getting here. In our case, we are at most five minutes away from Parliament. In a word, I don’t think it is a good argument.

We meet in the morning and we all have our BlackBerrys if we have any last-minute information to send to each other. Communication is very easy. The reason why we get those devices for work is precisely to be able to get in touch quickly. I find it very disrespectful that we do not take the time we need to ask questions of witnesses who travel to come here and who want to share their knowledge with us.

I would also like to add that, for some time now, there has been a tendency to call several witnesses to appear at the same time. Mr. Chair, before you came to the committee, we used to receive two witnesses. So each witness had one hour. That gave us enough time to ask the appropriate questions. Right now, we have to choose. It was your decision to conduct the meetings in this way and, one way or another, it is your choice, I suppose. But I see that there are some questions we cannot ask.

In terms of the time allocated for questions, based on the established speaking order, there is a final round of questions during which the NDP, the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party have five minutes each. And yet we rarely get to that point. On a number of occasions since I have been here, I have wanted to ask my questions and I have been told that there was not enough time left. I did not get my full five minutes.

If the Conservatives do not want to ask any questions, I will gladly take their place. At any rate, I think the work that we do in committee is important and I believe in the process. That is why I feel that, by devoting less attention to our work, we are botching it.

The reason for my motion is that I would like us to reconsider the new formula that you are proposing. First, I would like us to vote on it. Second, as I said, adopting the formula is like saying that we do not believe in the process. I for one do believe in it and I would like us to have the full two hours. All the other committees on the Hill do. I do not see why our committee would not follow the same rules.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Just to clarify a point, I've never bumped you from your speaking slot. If anyone has bumped you it would be one of your own colleagues. It certainly wasn't me.

Mr. Aubin, go ahead, please.