Evidence of meeting #71 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Director, Federal and Ontario, Progressive Contractors Association of Canada
When I say federally funded, I mean in most cases joint projects.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
I'm asking about where the federal government is the direct funder because there is a federal asset.
4:45 p.m.
Director, Federal and Ontario, Progressive Contractors Association of Canada
To my knowledge, there are no examples of federal assets today that have been built subject to closed tendering protocols.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
So this is essentially happening in projects where we're joining provinces and municipalities in funding.
4:45 p.m.
Director, Federal and Ontario, Progressive Contractors Association of Canada
Correct.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Okay.
Is this closed tendering itself occurring under provincial labour laws?
4:45 p.m.
Director, Federal and Ontario, Progressive Contractors Association of Canada
The closed tendering is occurring.... I suppose some of the guiding parameters exist—
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
It's the ease with which they can certify and obtain a monopoly within a given municipality.
4:45 p.m.
Director, Federal and Ontario, Progressive Contractors Association of Canada
Yes.
4:45 p.m.
Director, Federal and Ontario, Progressive Contractors Association of Canada
I think what's important here is the federal government is contributing hundreds of millions of dollars to projects.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
That's not lost on me. Maybe I'm picking up a little on where Mr. Sullivan was going. I don't expect the federal government is going to ask the province to change its labour laws to discourage the practice.
The practical question is, what can the federal government do when it is participating in a jointly funded project where this is an issue?
4:45 p.m.
President, Canadian Construction Association
I'm going to skip to another irritant we have—
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
I'd like an answer to my question rather than skipping to another irritant.
4:45 p.m.
President, Canadian Construction Association
Okay. What can the federal government do? One thing they can do is ensure competition, period, and not fund projects that are going to be constructed by owned forces, by municipal forces themselves.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Is that legally high risk, do you know, or do you have an opinion on it?
4:45 p.m.
President, Canadian Construction Association
Ask Nova Scotia. The Province of Nova Scotia right now has its own asphalt plant, its own chip seal plant, and by its own admission, it's still 40% higher than what the private sector was offering them.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Good.
Closed competition, Mr. Reid, I think it was you who mentioned that the Greater Essex County District School Board was one area where you are shut out of competing. Penny Allen, who is superintendent of business and treasurer of the school board, has been quoted in the media, citing that the extra costs associated with closed tendering are in the range of 10% to 20%. She knows that because for three years, I think it was, she tracked every purchase order on this to extricate themselves from one of six unions they were certified under.
That is an example where we have a body that has been able to quantify the costs of closed competition. That doesn't involve federal funding, but I think it gives a credible local example where that happens.
Open competition has its own challenges, the practice of using MERFs, market enhancement recovery funds, STABs, stabilization funds, and JTFs, job targeting funds. Mr. Kooy, does CLAC use MERFs or STABs or anything similar when it's hoping to bid on contracts?
4:45 p.m.
Regional Director, Eastern Ontario, Christian Labour Association of Canada
No, we never have, and I don't see our doing that at any time in the future. Do you mind my elaborating on that point?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
No, that's sufficient.
In an open competition situation how could the federal government address that kind of level playing field in bidding where that would not be...? Can we prohibit that from entering the equation in bidding?
4:45 p.m.
Regional Director, Eastern Ontario, Christian Labour Association of Canada
I don't think that's an issue the federal government would want to take on. I think that's a prime example whereby workers have the ability to join one union or another. CLAC does not subscribe to the theory of stabilization funds or creating this pool that signatory contractors can dip into—
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
If the federal government is funding a project that is won by a union using a STAB or a MERF, we are in effect replenishing the STAB or MERF and allowing them to perpetuate the process of continuing to underbid others.
4:50 p.m.
Regional Director, Eastern Ontario, Christian Labour Association of Canada
When members join those particular unions that have those funds, they make the choice and take the risk, you might say, of joining a union where their contractor is paying $1, $2, $3 an hour into that STAB fund and risk that contractor being less competitive.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Mr. Atkinson, you raised the issue of industrial clearances under the red tape. I think your statement was that we should eliminate them. I want to clarify that because that's the terminology I wrote down as I heard you say it.
I want to clarify. Is eliminate duplicate requirements for them from several federal agencies more what you—
4:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Construction Association
Correct, to have a streamlined uniform approach.