Transport Committee on March 21st, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 106 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, February 21, 2024, the committee is meeting to discuss infrastructure in Canada.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Therefore, members are attending in person in the room and remotely by using the Zoom application.

Although this room is equipped with a sophisticated audio system, feedback events can occur. These can be extremely harmful to our interpreters and can cause serious injuries. The most common cause of sound feedback is an earpiece worn too close to a microphone. We therefore ask all participants to exercise a high degree of caution when handling the earpieces, especially when your microphone or your neighbour's microphone is turned on.

In order to prevent incidents and to safeguard the hearing health of our interpreters, I invite all participants to ensure that they speak into the microphone into which their headset is plugged and to avoid manipulating the earbuds by placing them on the table, away from the microphone, when they are not in use.

Colleagues, today we have the honour of welcoming the Minister of Infrastructure, the Honourable Sean Fraser, and two ministers to follow. We also have Kelly Gillis with us.

Thank you both for joining us.

I know you're pressed for time, Minister, and you have to leave directly after the line of questioning, so I'll turn the floor over to you for your five-minute opening remarks.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Minister of Housing]

Excellent.

As a sign of good faith, I'll be significantly shorter than five minutes to make time for whatever questions committee members may have.

I would like to start a bit off topic and wish my daughter a happy eighth birthday. It was eight years ago today. It was pretty exciting. I highly doubt that she is tuned into CPAC at home, but in any event, it's good to put that on the record.

Look, folks, I know the language around the study today and on infrastructure more generally is fairly broad. It's not lost on me that the genesis of this meeting was about the question of whether the federal government funds roads. I'm pleased to share that we do, in fact, fund roads through a number of programs, and there's not been a policy change in this regard.

Mr. Chair, I'm happy to take whatever questions the committee members may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We'll begin our line of questioning today with Dr. Lewis.

The floor is yours. You have six minutes, please.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Hello, Minister. Thank you for coming today.

I want to share some concerns with you that Canadians have brought to our attention about the “no new roads” policy. You stated today that you fund roads, but we're more concerned about the funding of new roads, and my question will focus on that urgent reason for you being here.

In February, your cabinet colleague, environment minister Steven Guilbeault, said at a conference in Montreal, “Our government has made the decision to stop investing in new road infrastructure.”

Minister, isn't it your government's goal to stop building new roads so that Canadians will stop driving their cars, thereby reducing their carbon footprint, in order to fight climate change?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you, Dr. Lewis. I appreciate the question.

I would like to correct the record. There is no such policy as the one you suggested in the introduction to the question. We actually have a number of different programs that fund roads, both in the past and going forward.

Those kinds of programs would include the national trade corridors fund, the Canada community-building fund, the disaster mitigation and adaptation fund, the investing in Canada infrastructure program.

There are a number of different programs—Parks Canada, to go further—that in fact fund roads. We believe they make an important contribution to different communities. In urban environments, we have shifted toward—

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Minister, I'm talking about new roads, though. I'm specifically talking about new roads, and—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Yes. Certainly, a number of those programs fund new roads.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

—what you're saying today is at odds with what the Minister of Environment said.

I'm going to go into further detail. In clarifying this “no new roads policy”, he said:

The analysis we have done is that the network is perfectly adequate to respond to the needs we have. And thanks to a mix of investment in active and public transit, in territorial planning and densification, we can very well achieve our goals of economic, social and human development without more enlargement of the road network.

Are you saying that he was stating misinformation or an untruth here, Minister?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, am I correct that Minister Guilbeault is appearing before this committee today?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

He is, indeed.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I suggest there are questions about his statements that may be better placed—

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Do you agree with his statements? You're here, and I'm asking you if you agree with his statement.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

We certainly invest in public transit and active transportation for a whole host of positive economic and social reasons. We also fund road projects.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Okay.

He stated that there was an analysis. Were you privy to that analysis?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I understand that during clarifying remarks, he was pointing to comments around a specific project in Quebec, but there's not a decision that has been taken pursuant to any analysis to not fund new roads, as your question has suggested. That is not the case.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

He went on to say that the money you save from not building new roads would be used to fight climate change. Do you disagree with that?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Again, we have no policy of not funding new roads. I've listed a number of programs that in fact do fund new roads.

It's not that I agree or disagree with the question; I disagree with the premise of your question.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

A number of people in your party are spouting that idea. MP van Koeverden said on X, “building highways doesn't fight climate change.... 'The proposed GTA West Highway will have a disastrous impact on the environment, encourage residential sprawl and increase...[dependency] on cars.'”

Isn't it the goal of the Liberal government not to fund new roads and instead invest in green projects like building bike lanes?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Investing in green projects, including active transportation, is a good thing. However, to be clear, there are certain road projects that are a priority for our government.

When I was first elected, one of my top priorities was to help secure $90 million in federal funding for the twinning of Highway 104. It was the most dangerous stretch of road in Nova Scotia. There are young people who I have known my whole life who have been killed in traffic accidents.

I promote publicly—

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Minister Fraser, again, you're at odds with—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Dr. Lewis, this is an important thing for my community—

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

—another member of your party, Mr. Fraser.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I will, respectfully, not interrupt you during your questions and I'd ask that you exchange the same professional courtesy.

This is a top priority for me—

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Fraser, we're very focused on this policy and you're diverting to larger infrastructure. I've been able to examine you on larger infrastructure—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I've said repeatedly that there is no such policy, despite your repetition that there is such a policy. It's simply incorrect that there is such a policy. It's impossible to answer questions about something that doesn't exist.