Transport Committee on May 11th, 2023

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Palter again.

When Mr. Cory was here, he testified that the 2020 contract went beyond COVID. I'm going to turn to his letter of February 22, 2023. In it he stated, “McKinsey & Company was retained in May 2020 to provide strategic advice to inform strategic planning in response to the coronavirus pandemic and the CIB’s role in supporting Canada’s economic recovery by investing in infrastructure projects that promote economic growth and the transition to a net-zero economy. This work informed the CIB’s three-year $10 billion growth plan that was announced in October 2020.”

Was Mr. Cory incorrect when he wrote that in 2023?

[Robert Palter]

McKinsey's work in 2020 was initially started to help formulate the response on COVID, energy transition and sustainability. The work didn't complete. It was intended to go across three different phrases of work. We only finished the first phase of work.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Did it inform the growth fund? Did McKinsey's work inform the $10-billion growth fund that Mr. Cory alluded to in this letter?

[Robert Palter]

I am not in a position to answer that question, because we didn't finish the work. I don't know what happened between our first phase, which we did complete and, ultimately, that submission.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

How did Mr. Cory say that it informed the growth fund? Are you saying that there's no way for you to confirm that?

[Robert Palter]

That is what I'm saying.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

All right.

You stated that McKinsey's senior executives are independent contractors. Do you have any policies in place that would prevent these independent contractors from consulting with companies that are seeking funding from the CIB?

[Andrew Pickersgill]

I'm happy to take the question, Mr. Chair.

We're referring to senior advisers of our firm, who are seasoned executives who work part time on a contract basis, sometimes 10% or 20% of their time. They have a portfolio of things on which to provide expertise to our clients.

As I mentioned earlier, they're contractors, and they're bound by an agreement. When they leave, whoever hires them would, of course, run through, if they're hired, any normal process.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

No, I'm talking about when they're there. Do you have any policies that would prevent them from having clients that will seek funding from the CIB?

[Robert Palter]

The answer to your question is, yes, we do. We take our conflict-of-interest obligations very seriously and our policies very seriously. Our senior advisers are bound by a policy governing their conflict-of-interest conduct and declaring what their conflicts have to be.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

The public is very concerned about the level of coziness between the bank and McKinsey. McKinsey, in their contract proposal with the bank, talked about how they were the most suited to work with the bank. Here's a direct quote: “We have a deep understanding of CIB and the important context surrounding it. We clearly understand the objectives of the Infrastructure Bank from our work with CIB, our extensive involvement in the Canadian infrastructure ecosystem, and our extensive involvement with other, similar organizations”.

Can you expand on where that deep understanding comes from?

[Robert Palter]

I'm happy to address the question.

McKinsey has the number one rated infrastructure advisory practice, as assessed independently by Kennedy Consulting. It's a firm that evaluates all of the consulting firms globally and provides a ranking for them.

As with all consulting practices, our ranking, our status and our knowledge—

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Palter, I'm speaking specifically about why it was stated that McKinsey has a deep understanding of the CIB in 2018, at the early inception.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. I would like to hear some of the responses. It's more than once now that a question is asked and, while he's starting to give an answer and starting to get into his answer, all of a sudden, there's another question.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

That's not—

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I have a point of order.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

That's not—

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I have a point of order. Don't be rude.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Yelling doesn't prevent me from doing my job, sir—

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'd like to hear the response.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Yelling at me will not prevent me from doing my job. That's not a point of order.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'd like to hear the response.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

That's not a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

That's not right for the interpreters. One person should speak at a time, unless you want—

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

We know the procedure, Ms. O'Connell. Thank you.

Please stop speaking.