Transport Committee on May 11th, 2023

[Andrew Pickersgill]

I don't recall the name Kelly Murdock.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You don't recall having meetings with this person.

[Andrew Pickersgill]

To the best of my knowledge, I just don't recall the name. I'm sorry.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay, what about Kevin d'Entremont at McKinsey?

[Andrew Pickersgill]

Kevin d'Entremont is a colleague at McKinsey and Company.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

We have emails sent from Mr. d'Entremont to Kelly Murdock that were obtained through ATIP. They offer that “Andrew Pickersgill is our Canadian managing partner, and he has been collaborating with the industry and government on this topic. Andrew also led our Canadian team in supporting Dom Barton on the finance minister's advisory council. Through Andrew, I'd be happy to pull in experts for a briefing”. This is part of an email from Kevin to Kelly pitching work that McKinsey could do for the Government of Canada.

Is it fair to say that you were involved in pitches to the Government of Canada for selling McKinsey services to the government?

[Andrew Pickersgill]

Mr. Chair, McKinsey follows all procurement processes when responding to inquiries for the Government of Canada. With respect to that specific message I don't know the details, but I do know it was mentioned before. I have gone back and we have taken a look. My understanding is this: There was a meeting in 2020 around the time of COVID. McKinsey was interacting with many organizations, governments and businesses about some of the factors we were seeing around how COVID played out in terms of economic scenarios.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I only have limited time and I don't want you talk out the clock. You were involved in meetings with the Government of Canada at which you were pitching services that you wanted the Government of Canada to purchase.

[Andrew Pickersgill]

Mr. Chair, I don't believe that is correct. When we look at the records of that meeting, we were not doing anything other than sharing information about global scenarios around COVID. There was no work that followed and no ask for work.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You did do consulting work for the Government of Canada. You got over $100 million in contracts. Are you saying you met with the government, you had conversations that were unrelated to pitches and then somehow over here you ended up with over $100 million in contracts? Is that the contention?

[Andrew Pickersgill]

I'm saying when the Government of Canada reaches out and asks for advice and help, McKinsey follows the relevant procurement processes to get engaged.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That wasn't the question.

[Andrew Pickersgill]

Any description of my background is actually required by the Government of Canada because it's relevant information.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That wasn't the question at all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Pickersgill, and thank you, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That wasn't remotely the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Mr. Rogers, you have the floor for five minutes, sir.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome to all of our witnesses. It's good to see former ministers Sohi and McKenna on the line.

I will get to you in a second, Ms. McKenna, with a question.

First of all, for Mr. Palter and Mr. Pickersgill, clearly it has been declared here today that you guys are leaders in the work you do and your expertise is admirable. How do you feel about the fact that, with a $900-million investment by the Government of Canada, we're now engaged in $27 billion in infrastructure work projects, 40 and something projects. What's your take on that?

Mr. Palter.

[Robert Palter]

I think it's an indication that the mandate of the Infrastructure Bank as established by the Government of Canada is working.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Pickersgill, do you want to comment?

[Andrew Pickersgill]

I defer to my colleague as he's more of an expert on infrastructure.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you very much.

Obviously we're on the right track with CIB.

Ms. McKenna, in 2020 when Mr. Cory was appointed at the CIB you were quoted as saying, “The Canada Infrastructure Bank has an important role to play in Canada's economic recovery and expanding Canada's ambition to build more sustainable infrastructure and clean energy.” You also said:

I am pleased with the Bank’s announcement of Ehren Cory as its new CEO, as he has extensive experience in getting innovative and large-scale infrastructure projects built. Our government is looking to Mr. Cory to deliver on the Bank’s $10 billion Growth Plan that will create 60,000 jobs across the country, connect more homes and businesses to high-speed internet, strengthen Canadian agriculture, and accelerate the transition to a low carbon economy.

Ms. McKenna, do you still stand by that statement and agree that Mr. Cory is qualified for his position at the CIB?

[Catherine McKenna]

I look at everything based on outcomes. Certainly by outcomes he's done a great job. He noted on Tuesday that the CIB has 46 investment commitments and $9.7 billion of investment capital that is leveraging a value of $27 billion.

I was pretty clear at the beginning. I was thinking, okay, this bank has to do more projects and it has to do them now. We were relying on this in particular because COVID was obviously really hurting Canadians and we had very big concerns about the economy and getting things going across the infrastructure portfolio. I certainly put the gears there to get things done. I think he's done a great job. I would note that he was CEO at Metrolinx, and Metrolinx has a good track record of getting major infrastructure, public transit projects, built.

One of the things I'm really pleased to see is the emphasis on climate action. I don't think that will surprise anyone. That is something extraordinarily important to me and to Canadians, and also to our economy and winning in the net-zero future. Seeing all of the projects on zero-emission buses, the Darlington small modular reactor, retrofit projects, battery projects and storage projects with indigenous peoples, I think those are all great and show that the bank is now hitting its stride.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

It sounds like a good-news story to me.

You looked at the work that was done in setting up the CIB and directing the bank to invest $10 billion over the next three years in strategic initiatives—something you just mentioned, of course—and in partnership with some of the other indigenous groups and communities. You made certain statements around that, which were all true today.

Could you please tell the committee if you still agree with some of your statements about the strong partnerships that we've created with some of the indigenous communities and the work that we're doing in rural Canada with small communities as well?

Ms. McKenna.

[Catherine McKenna]

That's a great question, and I appreciate Mr. Cartwright's....

I should say that I think we do have to be careful with public-private partnerships, and we need to make sure that we get value for money and get things built in the most effective way. That means that they have to work, and there have to be benefits to Canadians.

If you look at the Oneida energy storage project, you see that's a great example of a partnership with an indigenous community.