Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 30th, 2006

[Gord Strathy]

That's correct.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

So the work has been ongoing for the last two years. When can we expect the mortality one? Do we have a timeline to know when we can start placing value?

[Gord Strathy]

No. We're about to meet with them again on it. We had Dr. David Pedlar come to speak to the convention in Quebec City in September. He gave us the wish list they have to go further with the study. He just had to tighten up a few details, then the next part of the study would be in effect.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

I remember Mr. Peate gave some credit to Veterans Affairs. But you're talking to the right group, if we're not moving fast enough. If you need more resources, this is the right group to be saying that to. As long as it's moving along to your satisfaction, that's our concern. There are no roadblocks being put in your way?

[Les Peate]

No.

I would add that one of the problems has been a matter of identification. In other words, if you look at respiratory ailments you've got everything from.... One of the things that affected our seamen was asbestosis because they used to line the gun turrets with asbestos, and every time the gun fired.... We've got tuberculosis, which could, by the limitations.... We've got emphysema. We've got a number of different respiratory diseases.

The Australians lumped them. Right now, Veterans Affairs is trying to find which of these particular ailments can be directly attributed to Korea. And this is where we're at now. They've recognized them. It's a matter of sorting out which of these will be automatically attributed prima facie. They're working on that right now, and I understand they are making progress.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

And that's the way to go, to do it exactly as the cancer one whereby you're automatically assumed to have it, and it's up to the department to prove differently? That's what you want to say?

[Les Peate]

Yes, that's what we're looking for.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Next, I have a strictly political question for you. Since we're talking about the ombudsman, I'd like to know, since both of you have some political background—and I don't mean that as an insult, because we all live in that realm—who should the veterans ombudsman report to? Should it be the minister, or should it be Parliament? If it's Parliament, it won't be as partisan. Where would you think this ombudsman has to report?

[Gord Strathy]

I think he should go to Parliament. Because if you pass through an intermediary, things always get changed. If he goes right to the horse's mouth, as they would say, he'll be right up there talking to you people.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Peate.

[Les Peate]

I would say the same thing.

If you remember, the Department of National Defence ombudsman was reporting to the Chief of the Defence Staff, I believe, or the Minister of Veterans Affairs, or both, and these people were stakeholders. I think they should report to a completely independent body. Actually, I hate to give you guys more work, but I would suggest that this committee would be the ideal body to report to.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Anders, do I have some more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

You're seven seconds over, so no.

Now we'll go over to Monsieur Gaudet of the Bloc.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have been fortunate. In 2003, I went to South Korea together with some 100 veterans and officials from the department. I travelled with Vic Toews, who is now Minister of Justice. There were other MPs, but they are no longer here. I am learning. In 2003, I was new to this House and I was not very aware of all this. I found it quite moving to see these veterans who went to visit cemeteries and had tears in their eyes when reading on tombs the name of people that they still remembered after more than 50 years.

I have been listening to you from the start. Two months later, after coming back from South Korea, I tried to give blood to Héma-Québec and my blood was rejected because I had not been back from Korea for a long enough period. I was told that you have to wait one year, because I had been in the militarized zone where the war was waged. We were the first civilians to go there. I believe that it is located between the 25th and the 35th parallels. It could have been the Red Cross or whatever. Héma-Québec refused to take my blood because there was something. If there had been an ombudsman, you could have had more rights.

What do you think?

[Les Peate]

I was very interested that you mentioned the refusal of your blood, because as you know, the blood bank will not take you if you've been exposed to malaria, and malaria is one of the 20-plus ailments that were very prevalent in Korea. I think Gord was telling you that we used to take tablets for it. In fact, the preventative tablets, Paludrine, turned out in many cases to have adverse effects themselves.

We trust that you enjoyed your trip in Korea. You mentioned the fact that you were on the parallel. I don't know whether this is going to be considered a commercial or not, but there is a TV program coming out on the seventh and the eleventh, in which Norm Christie is visiting Korea, and he will in fact be going to these places you visited. I would strongly recommend it if you get a chance to see it.

Do you have anything, Gord?

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I just thought of a question. Do you have an agreement with the Royal Canadian Legion? Are there scheduled meetings so that you can be even more recognized by your country? If I understand correctly, your association is independent from the Royal Canadian Legion. If not, is it the same association divided in two?

[Gord Strathy]

We do have some representation from the Legion, because we have the people, the service bureau officers, for example, who take cases to Veterans Affairs. We're very fortunate, in that the patron of the Royal Canadian Legion is retired General Charles Belzile. He is also a Korea veteran, and surprisingly enough, he takes some of our problems to the Legion. So the Legion, in general, works that way with us, and we do cooperate with them.

[Les Peate]

I would like to mention, too, that we are one of the 55 associations that belong to the National Council of Veteran Associations in Canada. This is, of course, the group that is headed by Cliff Chadderton, and we have the facilities of their expertise, should we need them. So between the NCVAC and the Legion, we do fairly well. Most of our members are Legion members. Many of our units meet in the legions.

One of the things that concerns me a little is that there is sometimes what appears to be an attempt to start turf battles between the Legion, the army, navy, and air force, and the other organizations. For instance, we put a move forward, in some cases, and the answer we get back from the appropriate department is that the Legion doesn't quite want it this way; the Legion wants the same thing but they want it done differently. This gives them an opportunity to stall and delay things.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Is that all?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Now we are over to Mr. Colin Mayes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

I just wanted to understand some things here. I think we're talking about a couple of different things. I see an ombudsman as an advocate for the veterans, looking at disability and benefit issues. But when it comes to the issues we discussed earlier, about long-term health problems related to combat environmental conditions, do you see the ombudsman as being the champion on behalf of the veterans and doing the research to find out whether the disability was directly related to the conditions in the field?

[Gord Strathy]

Well, I suppose his department would really have to do the research, because, after all, what would his function be if he didn't have any facts or figures to work with? He would need someone to do that research.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

And just to follow up that question, currently the Department of Veterans Affairs does not do any of that research. Is that a correct statement?

[Gord Strathy]

No, that's really not true as such. The department does research into all these conditions, etc., except, as I said, with the chemical poisoning, because we don't have anyone in Canada to.... Where can they go? They've gone to Australia and they could probably go to the States, but other than that, there is nothing locally.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I have a question then, which is obvious to me. Would it not then be a benefit to have the ombudsman's department take care of that research, because it would then maybe be untainted by any bias of the department? Would you say that's a correct statement?